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fitzchivary wrote:from what i heard you dont even really play anymore

It's true I havn't been around in game much for the last month or so, been doing a fair bit of shard hopping looking for a bit of challenge, unfortunatly it seems that most people everywhere want stuff to be easy.

*sigh*

Tristan and I must think alike because I too fail to see how a character come become downright "unplayable" (unless it's stuck somehow and unable to move). I've known players that less than a month after starting a new character in Ackadia, they were already solo'ing Ancients by pure feat of wits and skill. Ackadia was a brand new server too so it's not like they had saved-up resources, gold or magic gear to help themselves advance faster. I don't know how they did it (I still don't), but for them their semi-new characters were far from unplayable, much less "not fun."

I believe whether playing a certain kind of character is "fun" or not has only so much to do with skills and stats and A LOT to do with attitude and disposition. [Personal example: I hate playing a ranger (tamer), but It would be a GROSS inaccuracy to claim they're "unplayable" just because they're no fun for me.] If you think your character is no fun to play with, then it'll never be so even if it has uber stats and gear. On the other hand, you can be the weakest, most inept of newbies, and be having a blast fighting harpies and ettins.

If you're definition of having "fun" means killing any mob in the world real easily and riskfree, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment because powergaming, loot-harvesting isn't what WoD is about. Killing the toughest mob on the shard (by yourself) in less than 4 mins shouldn't be possible for ANY character. Yet if you wish to try it, it should at least be a serious challenge. A great adventure, not a "good amount of virtue" + 800 gps and a magic item.

What's that you say? Your tank can't melee ancients as easily as magi do? Well that's because mages DO NOT melee, they use ranged attacks (*hint hint*). By the same token, magi shouldn't have the same AR a tank has. Magi already have a huge advantage over tanks in using powerful spells. It is a mockery of game balance for a mage to be able to melee mobs (i.e. attack at close range) as easily (or more easily) than a tank character.

Personally, I don't mind Joram has a helluva time melee'ing an Ancient and other tough-hitting mobs, while Vardion can kill just about anything in the world without much trouble (relatively speaking of course). If Vardion has now been somewhat 'limited' to do certain things I'm confident I can adapt and still have fun playing that character. Whatever changes Drocket has in mind, whether I like them or not, I can tell you for sure neither Joram nor Vardion will become "unplayable" as such. In the past four+ years, I've seen dozens, maybe even hundreds of changes implemented to the tank and mage classes. Joram and Vardion are both at least four years old, and in those four years I've done rather minor changes to their skillsets (drop a skill here, pick another one there). Far more drastic changes than these could have made my characters "unplayable" by some people's standards. Not for me.

Orion Michaels wrote:Again, I'm not against a creature that can't be soloed. It gives the uber-experienced the chance to try and figure out a way to do it. Juat make it a new monster and put it somewhere where things usually don't spawn, like fire island.

Orion, I've seen you running around with some mighty fine gear. In fact, my stuff isn't all that much better than yours (I still wear fort armor for instance, not invul). By my estimation, you should be a so-called "uber-experienced" player. You certainly have been around long enough to have faced the worst our dungeons have to offer, and develop schemes and strategies to overcome such difficulties. Why is it that after all these months you still speak as if you were a month-old newbie? If it isn't gear and experience (or skillset probably) that differentiates the two of us, what do you suppose makes this "nerf" seem so minor to me and the end-of-the-world to you?

If you feel change in needed, try new specs, thats whati done, simon is a bard now, I am having alot of fun with it too.

Don't expect the system to change to suit you, you should make changes on your own within the system.

Orion,

The problem I had with your post had nothing to do with sarcasm. It had to do with the fact that you always have been and probably always will be a Whiner. We have addressed this before. Nothing that ever happens is good for you. Ever. Everybody is out to spoil your "fun". The problem that you have is not that your characters became "unplayable". You just were now not able to play them in the manner that you had become accustomed to. Yes, you would have had to adapt. But that is not your strong suit. It isn't a strong suit for most Whiners. Otherwise they wouldn't whine, they would, um, well, adapt.

*there, that was childish. Just to give you a reference point. My earlier post was not childish. It was disagreeing with you*

I will ask you once again, Orion, If this Shard is such a source of "not fun" for you. Why do you stay? That makes no sense.

fitzchivary wrote:thats mine maxed buffed no where near what you getlike i stated before not everyone has played for yrs and has +10 in buffs an extra things others cant get as a matter of fact if im correct from what i heard you dont even really play anymore

That template is not capable of producing buffs that you are looking for.

I've only been playing for about 5 months. Here's my template.

Tristan,

You are interpreting things that were not intended. In my post that answered yours, (before the one I thought was sarcasm,) I was not whining. I was discussing. So now that my opinion is different than yours I'm whining? Am I wrong because there are more vocal people on your side than on mine? Just because there are move voices on your side only makes you louder. There is no right and wrong in this situation.

Let's do this. I won't reply to any more of your posts, you don't repy to anymore of my posts. We obviously are not going to see eye to eye on this.

I stay because I find ways around it, or did you forget to read that part?

Everyone is forgetting a post I made earlier:

Orion Michaels wrote:It's no secret that I don't like the recent changes in relation to 2 of my characters. They have forced me to change those 2. Bear with me a second before anyone gets ticked off.

Since mage hybrids are now virtually impossible, it forced Tommy to become a pure mage, with provocation thrown in. That change was not really a big deal. Now his spells just do a little more damage than before. I think the changes will actually make MORE pure mages than there were to begin with.

Now here's the funny part. I had one of those super tanks, (really high AR, low damage ability,) that became absolutely worthless. Carlos has been changed into a Virtue Guard, (About 500k worth of changes for skills and equipment.) If it wasn't for these changes I don't think I would have found out the awesomeness that are Henchies. I don't know why I haven't done this up until now.


So my opinion on this matter goes like this:

I hate these changes.
Thank you Drocket for the changes, I kinda like them.

I hope that makes sense.

Joram, as for my thinking the changes are the end of the world, see my last post.

Also you make a good point. I do have a lot of good stuff, So I guess that means I'll start forgetting that there are newbies around and revel in the fact that I got to do stuff they never will.

I'M NOT LOOKING FOR POWERGAMING. Why doesn't anyone understand that I'm not looking for stuff to make things easier? I just don't want the weak to get trampled when things get made harder.

Anyway, again I digress.

Flame away people. It's fun to watch people cringe at the mere sight of a post by The Michaels Family!

MWWWAA HAAA HAAA. Dance my puppets. DANCE!

Anyone understand yet?

Here's a thought: If a tree falls on a mime in the forest does anyone care? Is a mime a terrible thing to waste? If n'sync "sings" in the forest do they still suck?

Nice reply... very nice indeed.

3 of my guys are mages; I don't want to see them become a glorified healer that is the reason I am against this idea. Though I suppose I am whining too because my views are not that of the mainstream here. It is open debate only if your views are the same as the vast number of people here. Other wise you’re whining or are a troll, or should be banned for statements you made saying you oppose certain changes. All of which I’ve seen said to fellow players for voicing their thoughts.

There are a lot of new faces around; I don’t want them to be frightened due to our belligerent manner.

I Concur

Orion Michaels wrote:You are interpreting things that were not intended. In my post that answered yours, (before the one I thought was sarcasm,) I was not whining. I was discussing.

You have a very peculiar way to "discuss," Orion.

Orion Michaels wrote:It's no secret that I don't like the recent changes in relation to 2 of my characters. They have forced me to change those 2 . . .
Since mage hybrids are now virtually impossible, it forced Tommy to become a pure mage, with provocation thrown in. That change was not really a big deal. Now his spells just do a little more damage than before . . .
Now here's the funny part. I had one of those super tanks, (really high AR, low damage ability,) that became absolutely worthless. Carlos has been changed into a Virtue Guard, (About 500k worth of changes for skills and equipment.)

Which part of that was discussing? I don't see any arguments for or against the issue at hand in that post. Instead, it sounded to me like you were complaining about how "absolutely worthless" Drocket's changes had made your characters, and how you were "forced" (someone aimed a gun to your head or something?) to switch your skills and equipment, thus "forcing" you to spend lots of money (why bother telling us you spent 500k? were you expecting Drocket to reimburse you or something?). We were all affected by this change in some way or another. You don't have to tell us the effect it has had on our characters, we know. Yet that post had no purpose other than to inform us how much it sucks to be you thanks to Drocket's changes. Your whinning has become more subtle, I'll grant you that, but whinning is still whinning.

Whether consciously or unconciously it is you who is making this change a bigger deal than it is. If you say something sucks enough times, you'll believe it. Trust me on this one, get yourself a more positive attitude and you'll have a blast in WoD anyday, anytime, regardless of what changes or doesn't change.

Joram, lighten up. You'll get less ulsers that way and the vein in the top of your head will stop popping out.

You see it as whining, I don't pure and simple. No one is worth the stress you put yourself through. Not even lil ol me

Just for the record, the points that Joram highlighted in my previous post COULD be seen as complaining . . . if you look at things in a negative way.

That was in NO WAY a grievance toward Drocket, it was an explanation of how I coped with the changes. Like I said, I may not like the changes, but I still thank Drocket for them.

DOCKET RULES!

its not main stream thinking its the same 10% of players whining that mages are over powered they have been whining about it for awhile nothing new.

and i know the template wont porduce them kinda status/buffs thats why i disagree with the changes they propose now. wonder why he didnt post the whole screen shot maybe he downloaded wod files and made his own shard and jacked his status just to make an argument,maybe thats why i cant see what shard is listed in his screen shot.

simon wrote:Nice reply... very nice indeed.

3 of my guys are mages; I don't want to see them become a glorified healer that is the reason I am against this idea. Though I suppose I am whining too because my views are not that of the mainstream here.

Actually I think you have this backwards, I'd say your view is part of the mainstream here, as I am finding most people want things easy, it's those of us campaigning for radical change to put some challenge back into the game that are marginalised.

Eldric wrote:

simon wrote:Nice reply... very nice indeed.

3 of my guys are mages; I don't want to see them become a glorified healer that is the reason I am against this idea. Though I suppose I am whining too because my views are not that of the mainstream here.

Actually I think you have this backwards, I'd say your view is part of the mainstream here, as I am finding most people want things easy, it's those of us campaigning for radical change to put some challenge back into the game that are marginalised.

I think he meant mainstream on the boards, which we all know is not visited by like 2/3rds of the shard.