theworldofdreams.com

Hail all,

I spent time this morning recording events and thoughts of the previous evenings adventures. Sachiko and I had voyaged to the Covetous fountain, sent innumerable lizardspawn shrieking into lizardhell, we cleared most of the 3rd level of Despise only to stop due to low supplies, dull weapons and a tag team duo of an Ancient and Royal dragons waiting for us with slavering, poisonous jaws of unremitting potential death. Then we returned to the upper lands and joined the wild and crazy flying monkey/witches invasion of Vesper.

I had written all this up with crafted phrases, emotional appeal, humor and pathos when a gust of wind lifted the parchment and sent it wafting out the open window to be lost forever and I don't have the heart to attempt to reproduce it again. *sigh* Computer crashes certainly do suck. If I receive some sort of inspiration later on, I'll try to write it all again but briefly:

For those that were there, it was an uplifting and tragic time, a battle that spanned hours and lives. Many died and died again. Countless opponents of the most vicious underlying types, regardless of their ineffectual exteriors, were slain. Victory was had eventually and peace returns, if but momentarily, to the island city of Vesper.

Witches? Dangit!! I was on last night. When was this epic confrontation?

Oh my, you didn't know about it. I am sorry, there were so many people there that I didn't even think of calling in any others, although any bit of help would have been great.

I was involved from around 9pm until nearly midnight. There were a dozen or so WoD inhabitants involved. I think it took place in more locations than Vesper, I know Nox was clearing some up somewhere else before he came to Vesper. Sachiko and I killed a few of the flying monkeys near the Britain moongate but the true utter madness and chaos was in Vesper. Death cries rang out with stolid regularity for the full time I was there.

It was unorganized, as these sorts of events often are, and a lot of deaths can be attributed to the lack of cohesive force we applied. Individually, we all shone like brilliant, shining gems of glory but the tax collectors today are reaping major profits.

I think it would be good to discuss this sort of thing within these forums. There was too much running around, chasing monsters, losing healers, etc, etc. We need to learn to work better together.

*Aellius Atei*

Well, hmmm. I was brewing and cooking last evening, preparing for Ciara's Return Party, but I might have left right around that time to watch that silly American pasttime, baseball. Hmmm...

I think it would be good to discuss this sort of thing within these forums. There was too much running around, chasing monsters, losing healers, etc, etc. We need to learn to work better together.

you couldn't have said it any better, the deaths happened because people ran ahead, despite my pleas for them to slow down, they would run ahead and cook under the heat, then bring more heat then the group could handle... and despite the fact that i was in vesper from the start of it, i.e. i went lookin for and found the trouble i didn't get a share of the loot

Also, I thought the dragons were suspose to stay home, they were blocking my view and i keep having to run back to heal because i could see anything.

Simon, I had my dragon there myself, and by the end i too thought that maybe they we're doing more harm than good. It was a learning experience for me and I will take that into account the next time something like this happens.

Pietro Florentin

Well, I was just going by Randell's Guide to Shard Quests, which says to let the dragons at home.

To be fair it was late here and i left very shortly after the last bridge was cleared with out saying anything, mainly because it was near one here, but i was alittle upset with the way things went.

I mainly think that we do need to talk this out like byan said. I didn't know what was going on my self, i just had to use alot of greater heal and regs, about 3000GP worth and not getting a share of the loot hurts abit, again that may have been my fault for leaving so fast.

I think Dragons can be utilized effectively in such situations but their large size and wingspan does create visibility difficulties for targeting purposes. Dragons are capable of absorbing a lot more punishment than human avatars and used properly can be a big benefit.

But, if dragons are involved, let them absorb the punishment and support them with healing, curing and such. Only problem with dragons is that they often get overly excited and aren't controllable.

I've never heard of Randell's Guide (is that in the Manual here somewhere?) but I imagine every circumstance is unique.

I'd love to see one of the invasion quests where each tank has a mage/healer assigned to her or him. I could see tanks in front to absorb the physical damage with offense casting mages behind them and healing mages behind them. It'd probably be ideal if the healing mages were archers as well.

If the enemy runs, let it. Deal with the immediate foes and move forward together to mop up and engage incoming.

There are a lot of common sense practices to make us all more effective as a group but when one is in the heat of battle, it is difficult to react as a team member rather than a solo.

I've never heard of Randell's Guide (is that in the Manual here somewhere?) but I imagine every circumstance is unique.

Yes, every situation is different, but some things are somewhat constant (like the targetting issue).

The guide is a little out of date (re: poisoning for instance) but it is still useful. If you go to the Manual page and look under the "-- Read Me --" category, it is listed as "Quest Etiquette" about 1/3 of the way down the list.

It is mostly helpful ideas to increase the chances that things go smoothly on quests but it can be hard to put into practice sometimes. The only way to really do it is to be a little bit cold blooded at times and let the runners go get themselves killed while the folks interested in staying organized hold back, wait for mages to Meditate, looters to loot, campfires to heal the wounded, and get the health bars back up (when they inevitably get lost).

I think it is a great idea for tanks to partner with mages and keep the mage's health bar up too--so they know when they get out of range (because they lose the bar). Trying to keep "their" mage's health bar up will also give them more sympathy for what mages have to deal with as they are healing/attacking/meditating/running to catch up/getting their tank's health bar back/resurecting someone/meditating/healing/running...

Hehe.

Augur Wildwood wrote:I think it is a great idea for tanks to partner with mages and keep the mage's health bar up too--so they know when they get out of range (because they lose the bar). Trying to keep "their" mage's health bar up will also give them more sympathy for what mages have to deal with as they are healing/attacking/meditating/running to catch up/getting their tank's health bar back/resurecting someone/meditating/healing/running...
Hehe.

That is a VERY good point. In fact, it would generate more of a team atmosphere. If the tank runs ahead and loses the healers bar, then it's his/her problem, not the healer's.

we should still be finding ways to work together, any ideas?

a good working unit for questing is 4 people. 2 tanks with a mage and an archer in support. the two tanks can bandage each other if they stay close and the mage can toss in healing or damage to foe as seems needed with the archer chipping away as well particularly at magey sorts lurking in the back. when they get tee'd off enough to rush forward they run into the tanks and we know how that comes out. the archer is also very good at picking off runners without having to move up and risk triggering more foes. the archer can also serve as the last line of defense for the mage should leakers bypass the tanks in front.

i've seen a small hunting party set up like this clean house any number of times. the key of course is that everyone knows their tactical responsibilities and executes them as needed. we have entirely too many "heroes" on a quest most times. you may be the toughest thing around but questing is when the ptb pull out the stops. If you act well as a group you are far tougher than any group of "heroes" running about acting as armies of one. I've had the pleasure of watching a group of oldbies (mostly) methodically slaughter a herd of royals, ancients and even more ungodly dragons. that evening the total was something like 25 or 30 dragons vs 2 or 3 player deaths. I can honestly say that if the lag storm generated by the horde of flapping critters wasn't so bad i don't think anyone would have died.

the advice in manual is good solid keep you alive stuff and thanks to Randall for compiling it.

Well, here is my two cents worth.

First off, if you don't stay for the end of the quest, there is absolutely no problem with leaving an owned bag to have your share of the split put into and left in your bankbox. I conducted the split, and had two people who did just that. (Belle and Bart).

Second, It is generally considered best to leave pets and or henchies out of quests like this. That being said, when I first got called to Vesper, I had no clue that it was a quest. I was under the impression that this was simply a rescue. So, I already had my dragon with me. The problem that most people have with Dragons in particular, is that because of their size, they hinder the ability to pull life bars. Whether it is one of your fellow compatriots, or one of the baddies. But I did learn a very valuable lesson in using my dragon in combat during the Branubian scenario, and that is, if you are patient with your dragon and don't send him on "All Kill" the second you see a baddie, but rather wait until all of the tanks are set, and then send him in. All of the bars are already pulled, and the Dragon becomes a very lethal addition to the fighting. Especially when we are fighting baddies as tough as "Ancient Dragon" monkeys, or Branubian Beast masters. The problem also arises when a dragon advances too quickly and spawns creatures that were not already locked on to the fighting, which causes the dragon to lock onto the new baddie, which spawns more etc. you get the point. But this is another place where if you are patient with your use of the dragon, this does not happen.

Don't misunderstand, I am as amiable as anyone on the shard. I am not saying that dragons and henchies should be brought along on quests, especially if we have as many people involved as we did the other night. But I do think that if they are used properly, they are not the huge inconvenience that they are being made out to be.

In closing, what a wonderful idea for a quest! I absolutely had a blast. Thank you to the GM and/or Seer who came up with the idea and implemented it.

P.S. No offense to those who think that we should have more discussion on this topic, (the whole quest etiquette thing) But it has been a sore subject in the past, and if you look in past threads there has been extensive discussion on the topic already. I think the best way to describe the outcome of those discussions, is to say that we all agreed to disagree. Prolly oughta let that particular dog lie.

Just my opinion though

hehe

~Tristan Gryphon~

I concur. This is the main reason I don't do a whole lot of BIG group quests. No one can agree on a meathod of attack.

The other reason is the general snobbery I've experienced while on said quests. And don't anyone say that it never happens because I've experienced it first hand many times and there were witnesses. With the exception of my first quest ever, I don't think I've been on a quest where there wasn't snobbery from 1 or more people.

(Double negatives are fun )

Anyway, this is me beating the dead horse so I will stop now.

First off, if you don't stay for the end of the quest, there is absolutely no problem with leaving an owned bag to have your share of the split put into and left in your bankbox. I conducted the split, and had two people who did just that. (Belle and Bart).

I'll do that next time.

In the end however it's not a big deal as i thought it was, a mage must have been healing me because i only used 4 greater heals.

We should pretty much try to talk this out in game as it happens is what everyone is saying?