theworldofdreams.com

why did you censor my link to:
http://www.voxfux.com/features/stranger ... iction.htm


Should not people have the chance to test its veracity themselves?

Actually, I didn't. I must admit that I'm rather tempted, to, though. I do believe that I'll nuke the thread in the New Players forum, though, since there's a limit to how much rambling, incoherent hate propaganda we need on these forums.

Drocket wrote: rambling, incoherent hate propaganda we need on these forums.

Anyone who actually reads that entire article will see that it is neither incoherent or hateful.

The purpose of the article is to show how we've been tricked to place hate where it isn't deserved.

This article is anti-supremacist. Let show you with an excerpt quoting Jack Bernstein who is Jewish.
[quote]Author Jack Bernstein described the abusive ADL smear process and challenged his fellow jews as follows:

“I am well aware of the tactics YOU, my Zionist brethren, use to quiet anyone who attempts to expose any of your subversive acts. If the person is a gentile, you cry, "you're anti-Semitic," which is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide your actions. But if a Jew is the person doing the exposing, you resort to other tactics:

* First, you ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

* If the information starts reaching too many people, you ridicule the information and the person giving the information.

* If that doesn't work, your next step is character assassination. If the author or speaker hasn't been involved in sufficient scandal, you are adept at fabricating a scandal against the person or persons.

* If none of these are effective, you are known to resort to physical attacks.

But NEVER do you try to prove the information wrong. So, before you commence efforts to silence me, I offer this challenge: You Zionists assemble a number of Zionist Jews and witnesses to support your position; and I will assemble a like number of anti-Zionist, pro-American jews and witnesses.

Then, the Zionists and anti-Zionists will state their positions and debate the material in this book as well as related material -- and the debate WILL BE HELD ON PUBLIC TELEVISION. Let's explore the information both sides can present and let the American people decide for themselves if the information is true or false. ISN'T THAT A FAIR CHALLENGE? Certainly, you will willingly accept the challenge if what I have written is false. But if you resort to crying "Lies, all lies" and refuse to debate, you will, in effect, be telling the American people that what I have written here are the true facts.â€

Guest 2 wrote:Anyone who actually reads that entire article will see that it is neither incoherent or hateful.

Oh, let me assure you, its QUITE incoherent. And just so you know: footnotes that tell you to do a Google search that simply bring up 4000 other hate sites presenting the same misleading information don't actually qualify as evidence.

Drocket wrote:Oh, let me assure you, its QUITE incoherent. And just so you know: footnotes that tell you to do a Google search that simply bring up 4000 other hate sites presenting the same misleading information don't actually qualify as evidence.

The footnotes generally refer to actual printed publication or television broadcasts. I'll quote the list in a second, but let me say that I have verified 99% of them personally over days of reasearch, and they are real. Doing a Google search is simply the fastest way to access these materials.

It is true that Google does bring up numerous white-supremacist sites with archives of the original sources. Unfortunatly, those type of people are naturally the first to accept the mind-blowing revelations of the article.

However, it is evidence that the article itself is not anti-semitical that white supremacists don't completely agree with the article. I unwittingly read a review of the article on a racist site only to find the reviewer complaining about what they thought was was an unfounded dichotomy between Zionists and Jewish people in general.

I think those type of views need to be abandoned, but I also think that can only happen by discussion and debate, not by censorship.

If you look at this list of sources you will see many of them are from national newspapers, Jewish news sources, books written by Jews, and international newspapers. Some of the stories have been censored from the web, but hopefully with a little determination, you can find an archive that isnt on a racist site (try libraries). For example:

According to FOX news, throughout late 2000 and 2001, a total of 200 Israeli spies were arrested. (167) It was the largest spy ring to be uncovered in the history of the US. The Washington Post also reported that some of these Israelis were arrested in connection with the 9-11 investigation. (168) US. Carl Cameron of FOX News Channel did a excellent four part, nationally televised, series of investigations into this blockbuster scandal. But FOX pulled the investigative series after Zionist groups complained to FOX executives. FOX even went so far as to remove the written transcripts of the series from its website! In it’s place was posted a chilling, Orwellian message which reads: "This story no longer exists." (169) Fortunately for the sake of history, the FOX transcripts were copied onto to many other websites and all four parts are available for your review. (see footnotes.)

Ok, here is the list of sources so people can see for themselves:
[quote]
1. Athens Banner-Herald December 22, 2001.
2. Yediot America (Israeli Newspaper), November 2, 2001.
2B. Ha’aretz. September 17, 2001.5 Israelis detained for `puzzling behavior' after WTC tragedy By Yossi Melman
3. Jewish Week. November 2, 2001. Stewart Ain.
4. ABC News20/20. ABCNews.com, June 21,2001.
5. Bergen Record (New Jersey). September 12, 2001. Paolo Lima.
6. Eye For an Eye, By John Sack.
7.The Zionist Connection. By Alfred Lilienthal
8.Fateful Triangle. By Noam Chomsky
9. Open Secrets. By Israel Shahak
10.The Hidden Tyranny. By Benjamin Freedman.
10B. The Life Of An American Jew In Racist-Marxist Israel. By Jack Bernstein,© 1984
10C. The Zionist Roots Of The 'War On Terror' Israel's Policy Of 'Covert Aggression'
. By Dr. Henry Makow. http://www.savethemales.com. November 2002
11. By Way of Deception. By Victor Ostovsky.
12. Neturei Karta. Jews United Against Zionism.
12B. The Life Of An American Jew In Racist-Marxist Israel. By Jack Bernstein,© 1984
13. Jewish Virtual Library of the American-Israeli co-operative enterprise.
14. Benjamin Freedman's 1955 speech.
15. Square One: A Memoir. By Arnold Forster.
16. Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia. refer to "Balfour Declaration".
17. Daily Express. (England) Judea Declares War on Germany. March 24, 1933
18. Vladimir Jabotinsky. Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934.
19. Beaverbrook papers. House of Lords Records Service. (England).
20. Charles Lindbergh's Speech in Iowa. September 11, 1941. Google users enter: Lindbergh Des Moines speech
21. Day of Deceit. By Robert Stinnett.
22. From Adolf Hitler's last Will and Political Testament.
23. Britain's Small Wars.
24. Deir Yassin Remembered.
25. The Khazaria Information Center.
26. Victor Ostrovsky. By Way of Deception.
27.The Gun and the Olive Branch. By David Hirst.
28. Assault on Liberty. By James M Ennes Jr.
29. Ostrovsky. How How Mossad got America to bomb Libya and fight Iraq.
30. Ostrovsky. The Contrasting Media Treatment of Israeli and Islamic Death Threats.
31. The Washington Times. Army Study Suggests U.S. Force of 20,000. By Rowan Scarborough. September 10, 2001.
33. The International Jew. By Henry Ford.
34. Jewish Frontier. Lindbergh and the Jews. By Hal Derner.
35. They Dare to Speak Out. By Paul Findley.
36. Senator William Fulbright on ABC's Face the Nation.
37. Patrick Buchanan on the Mclaughlin Group.
38. Rev. Billy Graham and Richard Nixon. CNN
39. Who Rules America? By Dr. William Pierce.
40. The Israel Lobby. By Michael Massing.The Nation Magaazine.
41.Saudis Lash Out at 'Zionist' U.S. Critics By Marc Perelman. Jewish Forward.
42.Ari Shavit. Ha'aretz Israel, reprinted in New York Times. May 27 1996.
43. Bubba: I'd fight and Die for Israel. New York Post. .By Andy Geler. August 2, 2002.
44. CNN.Rabin Assassinated at Peace Rally. November 4, 1995
45. The Fateful Triangle. Noam Chomsky's Account of the Sabra and Shatila Massacre.
46. Third former Militiaman with links to Sabra and Chatila murdered. By Robet Fisk, The Independent, March 11,2001
47. CNN. Israeli troops, Palestinians clash after Sharon visits Jerusalem sacred site. September 28, 2002.
48.India Reacts. India in anti-Taliban military plan. June 21, 2001.
50. Jane’s International Security News. (England) India joins anti-Taliban coalition. By Rahul Bedi. March 15, 2001
51. The Telegraph. (England) Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks. By David Wastell in Washington and Philip Jacobson in Jerusalem. September 16, 2001.
52. Biz Report (from Frankfuter Algemaine Zeitung of Germany) Echelon Gave Authorities Warning Of Attacks. By Ned Stafford. September 13, 2001.
54. San Francisco Chronicle.Willie Brown got low-key early warning about air travel By Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross. September 12, 2001.
55. Newsweek. Bush: We're at War. By Evan Thomas and Mark Hosenball. September 24, 2001.
56. Newsbytes/Washington Post. Instant message to Israel warned of WTC attack. September 27, 2001. By Brian McWiliams
57. New York Times. Spilled Blood is Seen as Bond That Draws 2 Nations Closer. By James Bennet. September 12, 2001.
58. ABC News20/20. ABCNews.com, June 21,2001.
59. The Bergen Record (New Jeresy). Five Men Detained as Suspected Conspirators. By Paulo Lima. September 12, 2001.
60. The Bergen Record. (New Jersey) Five hijack suspects had links to N.J. By Adam Lisberg. September 15, 2001.
61A. New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety. Division of Consumer Affairs. December 13, 2001.
61B. The Forward. March 15, 2001. Spy Rumors Fly on Ghosts of Truth. By Marc Perelman.
62. ABC News20/20. ABCNews.com, June 21,2001.Google users enter : white van Israeli spies

63.Unmat (Pakistan). From BBC Monitoring Service. September 28,2001.
64. WCBV TV. Boston Channel. FBI Agents Search Hotels; Several People Detained . September 12, 2001
66. Guardian Unlimited. (England) Uncle Sam's Lucky Finds. By Anne Karpf. March 19, 2002
67. ABCNews.com. Saudi Prince says Seven Saudis on FBI list Innocent. September 23, 2001.
68. The Telegraph. (England). Revealed: The Men With Stolen Identities. By David Harrison. September 23, 2001.
69. ABCABCNews.com. Saudi Prince says Seven Saudis on FBI list Innocent. September 23, 2001.
70. BBC News (England) Hijack Suspects alive and well. September 23, 2001.
71. CNN. Hijackers likely skilled with fake IDs September 21, 2001.
71B. Washington Post. Some Hijacker Identities Uncertain. By Dan Eggen, George Lardner Jr. and Susan Schmidt. September 20, 2001.
72. The Week (India) Aborted Mission. Investigation: Did Mossad attempt to infiltrate Islamic radical outfits
in south Asia? By Subir Bhaumik. February 6, 2000.
73.Express India. Indian intelligence wiretap identified 9/11 hijackers. Press Trust of India. April 3,2002
74. Jewsweek. India. Israel’s New Best Friend? By Gil Sedan. The Jewish Telegraph Agency. August 2002.
75. Wikipedia.com. The Free Encyclopedia. Mohammed Atta
76. Frontline. PBS. Inside the Terror network. January 17, 2002 Google users enter: frontline atta shy timid
77. ABC Channel 4. (Florida). A Mission To Die For. Rudi Dekkers interviewed by Quentin McDermott. October 21, 2001
80. Star Tribune. Eagan Flight Trainer Won’t Let Unease about Moussaoui Rest.. December 21, 2001.
81. MSNBC. He Never Even Had a Kite. By Alan Zarembo.. September 24, 2001.
82. The Israeli Art Student Papers. Antiwar.com. By Justin Raimondo. March 21, 2002.
83. Boston Globe. March 5, 1994
84. Goldstein memorial website. http://www.newkach.org/special/baruch/02.htm
84B. JDL's Irv Rubin Brain Dead After Suicide Attempt. By Dan Whitcomb. Rueters.
85.Ha’aretz. (Israel) At least two Israelis dead in Tower attack .By Mazal Mualem and Shlomo Shamir
86. CNN. Investigators Arrive at Payne Stewart Crash Site. October 26,1999.
87. Forward. Defensive Saudis Lash Out at 'Zionist' and U.S. Critics . By Marc Perelman. December 28,2001.
88. Newsweek. Bush: We're at War. By Evan Thomas and Mark Hosenball. September 24, 2001.
89. UPI United Press International. Sep. 26, 2001 Interview with General Gul
89B.Former Top German Spy Says U.S. Wrong About September 11. By Christopher Bollyn.The American Free Press. 28 Jan. Issue, 2002 quoting from Tagesspiegel interview, published on Jan. 13,2002.
89D. Fresno Bee. Analysis - Conspiracy Theories Arise From September 11 Attacks. By James Rosen McClatchy. Washington Bureau 1-13-2 .
90. Press release from Law Firm of Baum, Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford & Schiavo. April 11, 2002
92. Hoover’s Online. The Business Information Authority. Google users enter: hoover online icts
93. Associated Press. Experience, Reputation Make Israelis Hot Commodities for Homeland Security. By John P. Mcalpin. March 21, 2002.
94. Ha’aretz. (Israel) Hackers using Israeli 'net site to strike at Pentagon. By Nitzan Horowitz. July 30 1999
95. US Department of Justice Press Release. March 18, 1998
96. Jerusalem Post. WTC Architect: Collapse “Unbelievableâ€

For the sake of all that's Holy! Stop this man before he *spams* again! Jeez! Can't we just lock or delete this ridiculous post already?

Guy: Nobody wants to read about your anti-whatever nonsense! Can it already! What do you do, go around looking for open message boards to spread your disease? Be gone.

Now, now, be nice to the paranoid conspiracy nut. After all, weren't you the one complaining that WoD is too cliquish?

Is it not the procedure in the US Justice system for the jury to listen to all the evidence before coming to a conclusion?

If you disagree with the evidence the book presents then let us discuss it instead of resorting to slander. Or do you have no evidence to refute the book's theory?

1) This is a book?

2) Anyone who thinks there's any credibility in absurd claims of a Zionist conspiracy (and especially ones who waste time trying to defend Nazi Germany by blaming it on the Jews) are unworthy of even being argued against.

Now then, you've posted your nonsense. Anyone who cares to read it can do so. Is there anything else you need, or can you move on to trolling another board now?

Ugh, ok... since Drocket asked me to be nice, I'll try my best. See, dear... the simple fact of the matter is this: no. We can't go discuss it. For very much the same reason you do not invite the Jehovah's Witness into your home to "discuss" their religious beliefs when they knock on your door at 6:30 in the morning. Like them, you need to realize that if people were interested in finding more information on whatever it is you have to say, they would seek it out themselves. They do not need to be hounded where they live. They are not going to "convert" if you pester them enough. All it really does it guarantee, with 100% certainty, that they are going to be AGAINST whatever it is you are promoting. Did you ever notice that the people who are so eager to share their religious or political beliefs with you almost never want you to share yours with them? Why is that, do you think? Is it because they, themselves are too narrow minded that they believe that any other way of thinking is ludicrous? It very well may be, seeing as how they accept none other themselves, and try to get you to think so too... Makes you stop and think: Have I ever had either the Democratic or Republican party call me up and ask me to vote for them? Nope. Has the Catholic church ever shown up at my door asking me to "join their flock"? (Or any other denomination such as Methodist, Lutheran, Protestant, etc, etc, etc,... this would also include any Jewish synagogue.) Nope. And why, do you think, that is? Personally, I feel it is because they are secure in the knowledge that they are persuing something they feel is right. It sits well with them. The religious or political parties that feel the need to have an army of "recruiters" out there banging on doors... well, let's just say they leave something to be desired...

Anyway, thank you for your time. Be our Guest anytime, but please, please... stop trying to force your political views on others. That's just not the way to get things done.

Drocket wrote:1) This is a book?

Yes, it is a book, though obviously not one published by a well known mass distributor.
You can buy the book here:
http://www.booksurge.com/author.php3?ac ... ID=A000246

2) Anyone who thinks there's any credibility in absurd claims of a Zionist conspiracy ... are unworthy of even being argued against.

prej-u-dice n. 1.a An adverse judgement or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

Actually President Bush himself said <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011110-3.html"> "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th"</a> in his address to the United Nations. Why would he have to say that to the intelligent and well informed people of the U.N.? Might it be that an <a href="http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_21_02/German_Spy_Says_U_S__Wrong/german_spy_says_u_s__wrong.html"> interview with former top German Secret Service agent<a> was published on that day?

(and especially ones who waste time trying to defend Nazi Germany by blaming it on the Jews)

I am not intrested in blaming anyone or defending Nazis. Obviously I disagree with the Nazi idea of untermenschen (subhumans.) The truth is, I am interested in dispelling the <a href="http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:8lMgIhy_1mkJ:www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml%3Fxml%3D%252Fnews%252F2004%252F04%252F11%252Fwtact11.xml+telegraph+uk+Untermenschen&hl=en">Modern Untermenschen</a> fallacy to prevent similiar tragedies in the present.

So you certainly have grounds to disagree with the book's author on that one area. His key evidence is <a href="http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm">Jewish Defector Benjamin Freedman's speech</a>. I can't find a trustworthy source on that speech because it is so old and passed over by history. This one footnote is an exception though, you can't ignore all the others on just that.

I don't think the author was intrested in simply blaming and defending though, but to illustrate how the animosity between Jews and Germans grew where there once was none. You can't deny the historical events such as the Balfour Declaration, Treaty of Versailles or Judea declaring spiritual and economic war on Germany in 1933 (six years before WWII started.)

I think what is happening today with 9-11 and Iraq is the much more immediate concern than WWII. And everything concerning these recent matters is a lot more accessible. Usually you just have to go to the original publication's website (registration sometimes required.)

Anyone who cares who read it can do so.

Thank you for that fairness (not for the slander and prejudice though.)

Is there anything else you need, or can you move on to trolling another board now?

I'm curious to see the reactions of people who actually read the whole thing. Might take a few days since its so long though. I'll check back though.

look Celeste, if you are not ready for this you don't have to read it now. I think its important that more people know though.

You compare me to Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on people's doors at 6:30am. What's my business talking about it right?

How about the thousands of people dead on 9-11. What about the thousands of people dead/dying in Iraq.

I'm more concerned about the military draft knocking on my door than any Jehovah Witnesses frankly:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4792174/
What business does my country have to make me fight another country's enemies for them.

Don't you want to know why Bush and Blair at the same time endorse and contradict Sharron?
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040 ... -4103r.htm

Its time to look at where the power really lies. Otherwise we are going to be destroying not just Iraq, but Iran, Syria, Sudan and anyone else in the way of Israel's expansion. As Senator Chuck Hagel (Republican from Nebraska) called it a “generational war against terrorism.â€

Seriously, lock this topic up...before i say what's on my mind about this.

Celeste Kendreyl wrote:stop trying to force your political views on others. That's just not the way to get things done.

If not politely asking people to read about and discuss an important issue that affects the whole world what is the way to get things done?

Like I said, if people WANT more information on a given topic, they seek it out themselves. Generally, people dislike ideas being forced upon them, especially unsolicited ones. Your views and opinions are all fine and dandy, but that's just what they are: unsolicited. Nobody asked you to provide us with more information, you took it upon yourself to try and force it upon us. I politely asked you to please stop this. You didn't. You are a fanatic. Your views and opinions do not coincide with those of the people on this forum. Please go press your issue elsewhere.