theworldofdreams.com

Proof that the library is not "all talk":

Currently prepared and ready titles. Some books span multiple volumes, others are a few pages long. All have relevance to either Ultima Online, or the World of Dreams. All of them are interesting. All of them should be put in the Library in Britain that's not being used.

Not convinced? Have a look at the list below;
(pardon the lack of formatting)

Draconian Wars
Merchant Journeys: "Cove"
Cavalaria Jousts
Britain's Cemetary
Fairy Words
A little about S.C.C
The Path of the Druid Vol. 1
Druidic Spell Compendium, Vol. 1
The Path of the Druid, Vol. 2
COGITATIONS
Untitled
The History of Armageddon
Realm History, V#, The Bloody Plain
Dragon's And Cove
The Confederation of Three
Rocks and Minerals of Britannia
The Hidden Power
The Words of Summoning
Stargazing
The Way
Tailer Flowerr
Tome of the Draal
My Legacy
Thoughts and plans
The Staff of Purification
Investigative Notes
a Book
Musings
The Arcane Art of Spellcasting
The Alchemy of Spellcasting - Vol. 1
Lingua Magica
The Secret Knowledge of the Mage
The Alchemy of Spellcasting - Vol. 2
Sorsaria Chamber of Commerce (S.C.C)
The Return
A Welcome
Virtue
A politic call to anarchy
On the diversity of our land
Kabur's Journal
Translated Gargoyle Journal
Fropoz's Journal
Beltran's guide to guilds
Classic tales of Vesper: Volume 1
Dimensional Travel: A monograph
Treatise on alchemy
Classic children's tales: Volume two
Talking to wisps
Britannian flora: A casual guide
The wild girl of the forest
A tale of three tribes
The burning of Trinsic
The Fight
Deceit: A dungeon of horrors
The bold stanger
My book
Birds of Britannia
Taming dragons
A grammar of orcish
Phonemes of the orcish tongue
Baldwin's Big Book of Baking
Hubert's Hair Raising Adventure
Logbook of the Empire
Ye Lost Art of Ballooning
A Treatise on the Lore of Gargoyles
Tangled Tales
Knights of Legend, Vol. 1
The First Age of Darkness
The Second Age of Darkness
The Quest of the Avatar
Warriors of Destiny
Windwalker
The Caverns of Fiertag
Snilwit's Big Book of Boardgame Strategy
Of Dreams and Visions
Crossbow Marksmanship by Iolo Fitzowen
Dilzal's Almanac of Good Advice
Plant Lore
The Wizard of Oz
Alice in Wonderland
The Lost Book of Mantras
Kodeks Rit
Kodeks Destermur
Kodeks Benmontas
Kodeks Benmonni
Kodexs Xen
Kodexs Kir
Plans for the Construction of a Hot Air Balloon
The Book of Spirituality
The Codex of Infinite Wisdom
Morgan's Guide to Unfinishd Novels
How Death Affects Those Who Work Around it Regularly
My Notebook
Observations of Black Rock
Stranger in a Strange Land
Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang
Records of the High Court of Yew
Ultima: The Avatar Adventures
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNIA Volume I. A - E.
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNIA Volume II. F - L.
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNIA Volume III. M - P.
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNIA Volume V. V - Z.
COLLECTED PLAYS
NO TIME TO DANCE
THE SILENCE OF CHASTITY
MURDER BY MONGBAT
DOLPHIN IN THE DUNES
MANDIBLES
THE BOOK OF THE FELLOWSHIP
LORD BRITISH
GARGOYLE LIKE ME
TO BE OR NOT TO BE
BOOK OF PROPHECY
THE BOOK OF FORGOTTEN MANTRAS
STRUCK COMMANDER
GONE WITH THE WISP
KARENNA'S WORKOUT
KARENNA'S PREGNANCY WORKOUT
KARENNA'S TOTAL BODY WORKOUT
THE FIVE STAGES OF LAWN CARE
AND THEN THERE WAS KAREN...
THE INTRINSIC COMPLEXITIES OF INVESTIGATING A NEW SPECIES OF FLORA IN THE LAND OF BRITANNIA
RINGWORLD
THE APOTHECARY'S DESK REFERENCE
MAGIC AND THE ART OF HORSE-AND-WAGON MAINTENANCE
JESSE'S BOOK OF PERFORMANCE ART
THE WRITE STUFF
THAT BEER NEEDS A HEAD ON IT!
THE ACCEDENS OF ARMOURY
THE BIOPARAPHYSICS OF THE HEALING ARTS
WHAT COLOR IS THY BLADE?
THE BLACKSMITH'S HANDBOOK
THIRTEEN MONTHS IN A YEAR
THE DAY IT DIDN'T WORK
NO ONE LEAVES
A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BRITANNIAN MINERALS, PRECIOUS, AND SEMI-PRECIOUS STONES
TREES, AND THEN SOME!
BLOODIED BLADES AND BUXOM BEAUTIES
THE HUNDRED AND ELEVEN YEAR, THREE-MONTH, SEVEN-DAY WAR
BLACK MOON, RED DAY
TWO IN THE FOLD
THE FOREST OF YEW
THIS OLDE SHIP
THE CARVER CHRONICLES
HERO FERTILIZER
WHAT COULD BE LEFT BUT THE ASHES
THE SUMMER OF MY SATISFACTION
HITHER COMES THE RAIN
WHITE RAIN
MILORD CONDUCT
TO THE DEATH!
BLADE OF THE GRYPHON BARONY
THE WINNING NUMBER
THE SCENT OF VALOR
HOW THE WEST WAS
THY MESSAGE RECEIVED!
RIBALD ENCOUNTERS
THE KNIGHT AND THE THIEF
THE TRIO
THE BLACK COMPENDIUM
NO WAY TO JUMP
STEALING THE WIND
BROMMER'S FLORA
BROMMER'S FAUNA
BROMMER'S BRITANNIA
UP IS OUT
WEAVING
FOLLOW THE STARS
TREN I, II, III, IV . . . XVII
SIR KILROY
MY CUP RUNNETH OVER
SPRING PLANTING, AUTUMNM HARVEST
SHOOT THE MOON
OUTPOST
LANDSHIPS
LANDSHIPS OF WAR
WHY GOOD MAGES LIKE BLACK MAGIC
WHEN STARTS THE ADVENTURE
WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES
THE COMPLEATE HISTORY OF THE LUTE
BIRDS OF BRITANNIA
I AM NOT A DRAGON
THE DRAGON COMPENDIUM
THE JOURNAL OF GARRET MOORE
THE TRANSITIVE VAMPIRE
THE TOME OF THE DEAD
ARTIFACTS OF DARKNESS
THE LIGHT UNTIL DAWN
CODAVAR
RITUAL MAGIC
PATHWAYS OF PLANAR TRAVEL
ENCHANTING ITEMS FOR HOUSEHOLD USE
MISCELLANEOUS CANTRIPS
MODERN NECROMANCY
THE SYMBOLOGY OF RUNES
A GUIDE TO CHILDCARE FOR THE RICH AND FAMOUS
ALAGNER'S BOOK OF MARVELOUS AND ASTONISHING THINGS
THE HISTORY OF STONEGATE
THE WAY OF THE SWALLOW
VETRONS GUIDE TO WEAPONS AND ARMOUR
VARGAZ'S STORIES OF LEGEND
ONE HUNDRED AND ONE WAYS TO CHEAT AT NIM
PLAY DIRECTING: ANALYSIS, COMMUNICATION AND STYLE
ON ACTING
THOU ART WHAT THEE EATS
MAN VERSUS FISH: THE ULTIMATE CONFLICT
KNIGHT'S BRIDGE IN A NUTSHELL
MEMPTO RAYS: A QUALITATIVE STUDY IN METAPARAPHILOSOPHICAL RADIATION
THE BOOK OF CIRCLES
CHICKEN RAISING
THE ART OF FIELD DRESSING
WATER ON THE CAT
A SHORT TREATISE ON BRITANNIAN SOCIETY
A BAKER'S HANDBOOK
LOGBOOK OF ASTELLERON
GOLEMS: FROM CLAY TO STONE
THE STONE OF CASTAMBRE
THE DARK CORE OF EXODUS
ETHICAL HEDONISM
CONVERTING MOONGATES TO THINE OWN USE
JOURNAL OF THE KING OF THE WHITE DRAGON
DIARY
LOVE SONNETS
MY LIFE
MY RECORDS
MY JOURNAL
CURRICULUM
MINE EXPERIMENTS
BEYOND THE SEALED ENTRANCES
MY JOURNAL
MEMOIRS
MY DIARY
THE SLEEPING BULL
THE BOOK OF PROPHECIES
PIRATE DIARY
MY JOURNAL
WEAVING
THE BLACK COMPENDIUM
PHILIPHUS'S WISDOM
TEMPLE OF BALANCE
IMPLEMENTS OF BALANCE
ISKERISS'S JOURNAL
THE SHRINE OF BALANCE
ARTIFACTS OF COMMUNION
GUIDELINES OF LIFE
PENGUINS OF THE NORTH
TENETS OF DISCIPLINE
TEMPLES OF ORDER
THE IMPORTANCE OF MEDITATION
HISTORY OF SERPENT ISLE
THE TEST OF PURITY
THE POWER OF MAGIC
FUNERAL CEREMONIES
CIVIL WAR OR THE EVIL FORCES OF CHAOS
DIARY OF DIABOLICAL TRAPS
DENIZENS OF THE CAVES
THE LOST ORBS
ON ACCESSING THE SERPENT GATE
REPORT ON THE SHASRAJAH
SERVANTS OF ORDER
STRENGTH THROUGH ETHICS
THE STRUCTURE OF ORDER
HOLY BOOKS OF THE OPHIDIANS
MY LIFE AND MY BELIEFS
AND LIGHT THERE WILL BE
THE DOCTRINE OF CHAOS
DEVOTION
THE SERPENT LAMP POSTS
THE GREAT HIEROPHANTS
THE GREAT HIEROPHANTS
THE VOICE
AT EASE
DISCIPLINING SOLDIERS
MY JOURNEY
THE WAR OF ORDER AND CHAOS
THE SYMBOL OF DISCIPLINE
THE BOOK OF DISCIPLINE
OUR GREAT LEADERS
OUR BLESSED SERPENT ISLE
IS THERE HOPE?
WAR OF IMBALANCE
A TREATISE ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF LIVING GEMS
THE TRUE BELIEVERS
BODY TRANSFERENCE
A SOLDIER'S NOTES
MUSINGS
MAGIC CANDLES
ERAX'S JOURNAL
XENKA'S PROPHECIES
XENKA'S PROPHECIES
XENKA'S PROPHECIES
XENKA'S VISIONS
XENKA'S VISIONS
HORTICULTURAL NOTES
HORTICULTURAL NOTES
PIKEMAN'S DIARY
SLEEPING BULL
BREN'S DIARY
MAGIC SCROLLS - A PRIMER
BEATRIX'S DIARY
DUPRE'S LETTER
TREASURE MAP
BATLIN'S CONTRACT
LOVE LETTER
PARTING VERSES
FRELI'S LETTER
KNIGHT'S TEST
NOTE FROM CANTRA
FRIGIDAZZI'S NOTE
ERSTAM'S LETTER
FILBERCIO'S LOVE LETTERS
LETTER FROM POMGIRDUN
LETTER FROM MARSTEN
LETTER IN FREEDOM
HAZARD'S NOTE
PURLONIO'S TALE
PENDAR'S TREASURE
GAUNT'S VENGEANCE
THE ART OF WINEMAKING
FRIGIDAZZI'S INVITATIONS
GUSTACIO'S CALL
GUSTACIO'S CALL
CAPTAIN HAWK'S TREASURE
STEFANO'S NOTE
FLINDO'S LETTERS
COLUMNA'S DIARY
ARAM-DOL'S TESTS
MY LIFE AND MY BELIEFS
FOLLOWERS OF ORDER
SHIP'S LOGBOOK
JOURNAL
HAZARD'S LEDGER - PELTS
BRIGGIO'S BOOK OF ASTONISHING THINGS
DRINKING SONGS DUPRE TAUGHT ME
DRINKING SONGS DUPRE TAUGHT ME
OBSERVATIONS OF PAIN
POETRY FOR THE ROMANTIC LUTE
NOTES
A SHORT TREATISE ON COMBAT TACTICS & HABILIMENTS OF WAR
THE SLEEPING SOLDIER
A TREATISE ON TORTURE
PRINCIPLES OF ECONOMICS
THE DWELLERS OF SERPENT ISLE
COURAGEOUS DEEDS
RECIPE BOOK
DEVRA'S RECIPES
FIGHTING IS AN ART
LORD BRITISH'S TYRANNICAL ADVENTURE
THE CRYING LUTE
THE HOUSE OF THE UNICORN
NO SUCH THING AS FAIRIES
GUIDE TO KNIGHTHOOD
WARRIORS OF FORTUNE QUARTERLY
THE RITES OF CREMATION
TEMPLES OF CHAOS
ETHICS
THE CHAOS GATE
PRINCIPLES OF BALANCE
REPORT ON THE CLEANSING OF THE FIEND'S DOMAIN
RITUAL OF REUNIFICATION
ETHICALITY
LIBRARY OF THE ORDER HIEROPHANT
WHAT IS ORDER?
SYMBOLS OF THE SERPENT
ARDINISS' NOTE
OUTPOST NOTE
SILVERPATE'S TREASURE
MELINO'S NOTE
HORN OF THE GWANI
RUGGS' LOVE LETTER
DELPHYNIA'S ANSWER
IOLO'S NOTES
SERPENT ARMOR
BATLIN'S NOTE
LEON'S NOTE
KARNAX'S DIAGNOSIS
MINAX'S POEM
NOTES TO MYSELF
THE MAGIC COMPASS
DENYEL'S NOTE
REST HOUSE
BROKEN OAR INN
ANGUS' NOTE
THE OFFICIAL LOGBOOK OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
BENTIC'S JOURNAL
HONOR LOST
EXPEDITION JOURNAL, BOOK II
DE-VENOMING THE KITH
THE BEAUTY OF RHIAN
THE VOICES OF MARY
EYE OF THE BOULDER, THE RUNES OF THE MYTH DRAINER
CAPTAIN'S REPORT
THE SAGA OF BONE CRUSHER
ENEMIES OF TENEBRAE
SPELLBOOKS OF THEURGY
JOURNAL OF VERAS THE HEALER
THE CHRONICLE OF PAGAN
LOGBOOKS IN THE PIT OF EARTH
SCROLL
TORAX SCROLL
CATACOMB SCROLL
CATACOMB SCROLL
POTIONS
LETTER TO MORDEA
LETTER FROM MORDEA
MAGIC ARMOUR
THE MAGIC OF LOTHIAN
JOURNEYS THROUGH HELL
GOLD: VALUABLE COMMODITY OR WORTHLESS TRASH?
MY RIVAL, MY LOVE - PART I
EARTHEN MAGIC
DISPELLING MYTHS: THE TRUTH ABOUT MAGIC
SCROLLS FOUND ON THE QUEST FOR SLAYER
MORIENS: NECROMANCER, PROPHET, HERO
EAR OF ARRICORN: VOL. III
EAR OF ARRICORN: Vol. IV
EAR OF ARRICORN: VOL. VI
THE BIG BOOK OF ADVENTURE
BROGDAN'S HELPFUL GUIDE TO MUSHROOMS
STORIES TO MAKE CHILDREN SLEEP
ADVENTURE QUARTERLY VOL. IX
ADVENTURE QUARTERLY VOL. XII
GUARD LOGS
SONG OF FRED
THE CHEESY BOOK
HISTORY OF PAGAN
THE HISTORY OF NECROMANCY
ON SORCEROUS WAYS...
THE ART OF FLAME
THE TONGUE OF FLAME
SPELLBOOKS OF SORCERY
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE
SPELLBOOKS OF THAUMATURGY
THE REAGENTS OF THAUMATURGY
THE MYTHOLOGY OF THE ZEALAN DEITIES
THE FINAL SUNLIGHT
THE OBJECTIVE HISTORY OF PAGAN
RAISING YOUR CHILDREN CORRECTLY
FINDING THE WISDOM OF STRATOS
PARABLES FROM THE TEACHINGS OF STRATOS, VOL. I
PARABLES FROM THE TEACHINGS OF STRATOS, VOL. II
A LETTER TO NEW ACOLYTES
THE WARRIOR AND THE ACOLYTE
THE MYSTERIES OF LITHOS
SAYINGS OF THE GUARDIAN
Blackrock
Britain
Dupre
Ether
Iolo
The Ophidians
A Short Treatise on the Evolution of the Orcish Species in Sosaria
Shamino
Stonegate
The Founding of the Guards of Virtue
The Ballad of the Shattered Stone
Crops of Britannia
Flowers & Shrubs of Britannaia
Herbs of Britannia
Trees of Britannia
The Power of the Dark Art
Dark Magic
Daemonology
Paths of Darkness
The Blight
The Ninth Circle
The Eight Shrines as Obstacles
Undead: Cadaverous Beastiary
The Bear God: Daemon or Deity?
Principles of Magic
Surge Addiction
The Crypts of Yew
Intricities of the Shard
Of Necromantic Power
Ley Lines - Theories
Spatial Distortion and Moongates
The Properties of Moongates
Temporal Distortion
Controlling Undead
Basic Magery in Practice
Proper Reagent Care Guide
Introduction to Moongates
The Virtue of Knighthood
Grasping Fortune
The Apprentice Wizard
A Britannian Navy

+ 20 unfinished titles to add


If only two or three of these books pique your interest, voice your desire to have the library up here. I doubt the Admin will listen to me, but I'm sure if we work together, we can bring something positive to WoD. But I say again the library will not exist without your (voiced) support and desire to see it in WoD.

If you are in favour of having the library, please express it in this thread.

-M

I, for one, would LOVE to see this library come to pass. I think the idea is a fantastic one, and, frankly, don't entirely understand the delay of something that would so obviously be an asset to the shard. Perhaps my eagerness stems from my deep love of books, but I would seriously LOVE to see this library happen.

Marius the Black wrote:...I doubt the Admin will listen to me, but I'm sure if we work together, we can bring something positive to WoD.
-M

(Bypassing the snideness of the remark)

You know, we'll listen to anyone about almost anything, but what people usually mean is doing it for them. I'd love to see a library, but I'd love it even more if players took it upon themselves to construct all of it. I think the sense of accomplishment would far outweigh the minor "cool" things we could add to it. I'm usually quick to knock OSI shards, but one thing I've always been impressed with is the ingenuity the players on OSI shards show. I've seen some pretty amazing things done with just the simple tools UO gives you. Honestly, sometimes I think WoD suffers from "handholditis" a little too much.

Laephis wrote: I'd love to see a library, but I'd love it even more if players took it upon themselves to construct all of it . . . I've seen some pretty amazing things done with just the simple tools UO gives you. Honestly, sometimes I think WoD suffers from "handholditis" a little too much.

Totally unfair comparison, Laephis. WoD will never be like the OSI shards because WoD is made up of a handful of semi-regular lurkers while OSI shards count on THOUSANDS of hardcore RPers and guildmember faithfuls, exactly the kind of players WoD is in extremely short supply of. [Despite what conventional wisdom says, OSI shards are not made up of only powergamers and jerks.]

While RPing is allowed in WoD, this is not a RPing shard. Far from it, the only time anything remotely close to RPing takes place is during quests. Do we have RPers? Sure. But since our society is not into RPing, it is hard to get people to participate in RPing-oriented events UNLESS the Admins get involved (i.e. the Seers).

Take Marius Library for instance. How long has he been adverstising this thing, like a whole year? In that time he's gotten a few good reviews but no one has done anything to help him. He came up with the idea, he made it public, and he did all the work. And my guess is so long as the Admins keep ingnoring him, no one is going to give a damn about his library in a few months.

Heck, I don't have to guess. I use myself as a personal example. The Quest Museum sounded like an awesome idea in my mind when I came up with it. But in spite of all the thumbs up I received from the WoD populous in the beginning, the idea never stuck. Sure, a few people offered me some items, but besides that I alone was in charge of maintaining it, continuing to advertise, and enlarging the exhibit. Heck, without the help of Drocket and Arimethea the museum thing would have never happened at all.

My point is the Quest Museum was my brainchild from the beginning and continued to be my dream (and mine only) until the day I gave up on it. People might have believed it was a 'great idea!' but if I'm the only one doing something about it then what's the point?

Players can do some pretty amazing things without GM assistance. After nearly five years of playing here in WoD, though, I can tell you with certainty that all those amazing things are doomed to failure without some sort of Admin recognition. I don't think it's something that we can fix either. The problem is systemic and will not go away unless you rebuild WoD from scratch (which is not going happen anytime soon). So the only alternative left is for the Admins and the few (the VERY few) people interested in creating something amazing--as you say--to work together.

Heck, I'd be happy if we managed to salvage the partial fictional history we have created in these past 5 years. Even that is starting to be forgotten now. You know, I'm always wary of know-it-all, highly opinionated rookies who after a couple of months think they've got WoD all figured out. But this is one aspect of WoD I'll never get tired criticizing because I feel so strongly about this topic. I still remember the first time I stood in that throne room, bowing down with pride to our very own Queen Lissar. Few times since have I felt so proud of being part of this our World of Dreams. I would love for other people to experience the same thing at least once while they play here.

couple points in no particular order

first Dear lord this Marius guy may well be more vocal than Atei is. That is a lot of writing indeed.

second while i am all in favour of a library my own experience is that books tend to get screwed up in fairly short order. michella tried to keep a book of the people who visited her home and in every single case it got buggered up within a couple weeks. it was very frustrating for her and i can imagine Marius' feelings after his books start failing. is it possible in some way to copy a book so that only the copies are at risk?

please people when you quest write it up after for the entertainment of others who couldn't make it. more importantly we should know the names of the heroes who put it on the line to save the kingdom. after all if no one tells the tales what names will ring down through the ages. Who are our Achilles and Bellisarius and Caesars?

Laephis, with all due respect, I think the lack of intervention on the Admin's part to let player ideas grow is the sole reason so much of Britannia stands empty. Just as it is very difficult for players to see the side of Admin (yet feel their hand), I will say that it is very difficult for the Admin to see things strictly as players, no matter what their gaming experience.

I've seen other shards where they've actually constructed areas in the Green Acres, and the admin were happy to let player ideas grow. They encouraged good ideas and fostered growth. Truly, hard work, effort and ingenuity was rewarded. Can the same be said about WoD?

I'm not asking for ten million gold, and I'm not asking you individually cite every book or anything like that. I'm asking for you to lock down maybe thirty bookshelves somewhere where they'll get some notice, and be worth a damn. It is my opinion that since I have started with the library, I have never asked for anything unreasonable or unfair that would put me, as a player, at an advantage over anyone else.

Why is it that there's quest goblets and player books there, but we, the players of now, can't put anything there? Why is it that some of the books are locked down, but now others who want to contribute to that, can't?

Joram is right - player legacies don't last. S.C.C is gone. The Fellowship Hall is near but forgotten, and I'll wager my library lasts a scant six months before falling into obscurity. Such is life. But it's important to me, and it's a positive legacy I can leave to WoD if I ever do decide to leave. I can't stress the feeling of abandonment I have when good, positive ideas for this shard, only to have it said "well, it's in your hands son, go for it."

The very fact of the matter is that unless you want to give me powers of a Seer or some such, I'm not able to achieve my goals. Simple as that. Too ambitious? Quite possibly. Arrogant and over-rated? Maybe.

But I have dreams for WoD, big dreams. If it's the intention of this shard to grow and become something beautiful at the hands of those willing to work for it, then so be it - I want to embrace that, and let WoD come into a rennaissance that's been long overdue.

However, if you want to cling to old traditions and ignore the task of keeping WoD growing and fresh (and if that does mean involvement by the Admin in league with players, then so be it) then that is exactly the way the shard would go. It's kind of upsetting that you see fostering players wanting to make the shard grow as troublesome and "beyond the concern" of the administration in general.

Anyone else who had put in the work and brought up this idea in the forums, I would fully be behind them.

Now that the library is fully done, I intend to fight to see it put up, or have it said to me, publicly and in no uncertain terms, that the library will never be a possibility.

-M

Joram Lionheart wrote:Totally unfair comparison, Laephis.

I disagree.

WoD will never be like the OSI shards because WoD is made up of a handful of semi-regular lurkers while OSI shards count on THOUSANDS of hardcore RPers and guildmember faithfuls, exactly the kind of players WoD is in extremely short supply of. [Despite what conventional wisdom says, OSI shards are not made up of only powergamers and jerks.]

Looks like it's been a long time since you stepped foot on OSI. It's almost none of the things you describe. There is little to no role-play, guilds come and go like the wind, and plenty of people just plain lurk there. What makes WoD so different? Is it a numbers thing? Even with a significantly smaller playerbase we still have very little: in five years the Haunt and FH are the only two things I can think of that come close.

While RPing is allowed in WoD, this is not a RPing shard. Far from it, the only time anything remotely close to RPing takes place is during quests. Do we have RPers? Sure. But since our society is not into RPing, it is hard to get people to participate in RPing-oriented events UNLESS the Admins get involved (i.e. the Seers).

Roleplaying has nothing to do with players taking initiative to create a world they want to play in.

Take Marius Library for instance. How long has he been adverstising this thing, like a whole year? In that time he's gotten a few good reviews but no one has done anything to help him. He came up with the idea, he made it public, and he did all the work. And my guess is so long as the Admins keep ingnoring him, no one is going to give a damn about his library in a few months.

What the hell is stopping him from buying some land, doing some decorating and filling it with books?

Players can do some pretty amazing things without GM assistance.

I'd love to see it. Really, I would.

After nearly five years of playing here in WoD, though, I can tell you with certainty that all those amazing things are doomed to failure without some sort of Admin recognition.

Why is everything doomed? So far I haven't seen anything that's stopping anyone from attempting whatever they desire...except maybe lack of motivation? Or lack of time?

Here are some examples of what I've seen over the years on OSI: rune library, treasure map library, player run auctions, shard history museums, reading rooms, etc. I'm not saying all or any of these would work here, but none of those people had OSI GMs helping them. Most of them were projects done by one or two people who were inspired and got a little creative with the tools they were given. What makes us so different?

Marius the Black wrote:Laephis, with all due respect, I think the lack of intervention on the Admin's part to let player ideas grow is the sole reason so much of Britannia stands empty. Just as it is very difficult for players to see the side of Admin (yet feel their hand), I will say that it is very difficult for the Admin to see things strictly as players, no matter what their gaming experience.

I've been an active player for almost 3 years, I am very well aquainted with the issues players have. Other admin have even more experience on the player side of things (except maybe Drocket...ask him sometime how much he plays ) You'd think that being an administrator all of a sudden gives you the power to do make all kinds of great changes. Well here's the reality of it: It doesn't. There are politics and conflicts and all sorts of crap that get in the way. You tied up and bogged down deal with player issues. You run into technical difficulties. You run into real life difficulties. Shall I go on?

I've seen other shards where they've actually constructed areas in the Green Acres, and the admin were happy to let player ideas grow. They encouraged good ideas and fostered growth. Truly, hard work, effort and ingenuity was rewarded. Can the same be said about WoD?

What in the seven hells stops you from creating your own areas with the land out there? Player run towns, for example, are not that diffcult, and I know WoD has had them in the past, but they fade quickly like everything else. Things like that take organization, time and effort. Those are things that administrators cannot provide you.

Joram is right - player legacies don't last. S.C.C is gone. The Fellowship Hall is near but forgotten, and I'll wager my library lasts a scant six months before falling into obscurity. Such is life. But it's important to me, and it's a positive legacy I can leave to WoD if I ever do decide to leave. I can't stress the feeling of abandonment I have when good, positive ideas for this shard, only to have it said "well, it's in your hands son, go for it."

If it's that important to you, go for it! If all that's holding you back are "a few bookcases", then impress the shard with your creativity! It is in your hands, it's your flipping shard! Make it or break it.

The very fact of the matter is that unless you want to give me powers of a Seer or some such, I'm not able to achieve my goals. Simple as that. Too ambitious? Quite possibly. Arrogant and over-rated? Maybe.

Your creative talent hinges on being granted special privileges?

However, if you want to cling to old traditions and ignore the task of keeping WoD growing and fresh (and if that does mean involvement by the Admin in league with players, then so be it) then that is exactly the way the shard would go. It's kind of upsetting that you see fostering players wanting to make the shard grow as troublesome and "beyond the concern" of the administration in general.

Old traditions? What the hell are you talking about? The "admin" have every desire to keep the shard fresh, but not in the areas you've been talking about in this thread. We affect things like adding new lands, new mobs, new items, and new content. You take those things and create the world that's known as WoD. Seers give you stories and you fill in the details of what happens.

"But where is this new content that you speak of Laephis? I've been here for years and haven't seen much of anything new."

I'll tell you where is it: sitting on the back burner with 100 other projects. Why? Because we suck. The shard has been wallowing in mediocrity for a long time now, and it's going to take some pretty big changes on our part to get things headed in the right direction. Wanna help? Use your tools and your creativity and make WoD someplace special. If you get to a certain point and are totall stuck, you might find some unforseen help. The people who have the power to break the pattern of "here today, gone tomorrow" ideas are the players.

And there it is, publicly and in no uncertain terms.

Why? Because we suck. The shard has been wallowing in mediocrity for a long time now, and it's going to take some pretty big changes on our part to get things headed in the right direction. Wanna help? Use your tools and your creativity and make WoD someplace special.

Ironic that when those "big changes" are offered to you by players, they are not embraced. I've plenty more projects to start on, if only I could get my library up. I'm not going to waste time with a player-run library, because that's just insulting. I've no desire to put all my hard work and effort into obscurity.

I know WoD has had them in the past, but they fade quickly like everything else.

That's not surprising, with the lack of support. I think the attitude of the Admin having "it's in the players hands" is really just to off-load the responsibilities of running a shard. If you (the Admin in general) are afraid of making changes, what kind of message does that send us, the players? If it is "hard" for you to work on projects, what gives us - the players - any inspiration to continue? I've spent an entire *year* of my free time chasing down text for a computer game and cataloguing it for the enjoyment of others. I've spent hours typing and proof-reading and trying to get support for my idea. I've tried to do everything I can 'as a player' to make this happen. And when it comes down to me calling for support, this is what I get;

"I'm sorry, I cannot help you with that."

Welcome to the World of OSI.

-M

Marius the Black wrote:
Ironic that when those "big changes" are offered to you by players, they are not embraced. I've plenty more projects to start on, if only I could get my library up. I'm not going to waste time with a player-run library, because that's just insulting. I've no desire to put all my hard work and effort into obscurity.

Ahh, so now we are really getting to the crux of the issue. If it's not going to give you guaranteed fame and recognition, then you can't be bothered with it. What ever happened to do something because it's something you wanted to do, regardless if anyone else notices?

That's not surprising, with the lack of support. I think the attitude of the Admin having "it's in the players hands" is really just to off-load the responsibilities of running a shard.

And what the flying freak do you know about running a shard? There are no "responsiblies" being offloaded to anyone here. I'm blown away that you fail to understand the concept being discussed, so I'll paraphrase it one more time: We want to see players taking an active role in their shard and not looking to us all the time.

If you (the Admin in general) are afraid of making changes, what kind of message does that send us, the players?

Where did I ever say we were "afraid" to make changes? Have you missed everything I've said up to this point? Fear has nothing to do with it at all. I can't go into the specifics of the problems, but it's far more complicated than being scared.

If it is "hard" for you to work on projects, what gives us - the players - any inspiration to continue? I've spent an entire *year* of my free time chasing down text for a computer game and cataloguing it for the enjoyment of others. I've spent hours typing and proof-reading and trying to get support for my idea. I've tried to do everything I can 'as a player' to make this happen. And when it comes down to me calling for support, this is what I get;

No, you've spent a year trying to get us to build your library for you. When you are told you won't get any special treatment over it, you throw a fit over it. I'm sorry, but we aren't about to make a "Marius Memorial Library" just so you can leave your mark on the shard. If you want to leave behind a legacy, you'll have to build it yourself. I'm sorry if that's hard to hear.

"I'm sorry, I cannot help you with that."

Welcome to the World of OSI.

How nice of you to throw out all the nice things you get on WoD that you don't on OSI, just to harp on your issue. Well, here's a clue: If you were on OSI, you wouldn't even be having a conversation with one of the GMs.

What ever happened to do something because it's something you wanted to do, regardless if anyone else notices?

What's the point of a player library if no players use it?

We want to see players taking an active role in their shard and not looking to us all the time.

Done and done. The library is completed, without your help. Now it needs help, but apprently, it'd serve far more 'use' by sitting in some deeded tower where no one will visit. Joram spoke true words in his post about the Quest museum and such. But I guess some things were not meant to be.

When you are told you won't get any special treatment over it, you throw a fit over it.

I don't believe I've asked for anything unreasonable. I never asked for "special treatment" - I asked for help. There is a difference. If I feel passionately for it, and for the shard, now that is a bad thing? I'm trying to contribute, but I'm stuck in "just put your hours of hard work in a player house, I'm sure that will be just as satisfying".

Well, I guess that's it. WoD is determined to not have a special library. I suppose I could be dramatic and say "well I hate you all and I'm quitting" or something like that, but that'd be rather immature. And I like WoD and I like the community here. I even like you Laephis . But I am upset that I can't contribute. Maybe, after my pride gets over not having a library, I will put it somewhere small and obscure, and be content with that.

There isn't really another choice, is there?

-M

Marius, you have asked for special treatment. Even in this thread you say you need to be a seer to make it all happen the way you want it. But you hit on an important issue so let's focus on that:

What's the point of a player library if no players use it?

Now it needs help, but apprently, it'd serve far more 'use' by sitting in some deeded tower where no one will visit.

Player apathy is something no admin can fix. "If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies. Everything you've been given on WoD has come free of charge, and none of us ask for anything in return. But you want to know what really motivates and excites me? When players take all this free stuff and do something amazing with it. So there's your challenge, Marius. You think people won't visit your library? Then show us how clever you are and find a way to change that. (Then tell the real-life libraries your secret, I'm sure they'd love to see people darkening their doors more often. )

Laephis wrote:What makes WoD so different? Is it a numbers thing? Even with a significantly smaller playerbase we still have very little: in five years the Haunt and FH are the only two things I can think of that come close.

And how do you suppose the FH became a historic landmark in the first place? Did it not receive the full support of the Admins at the time? I didn't even know there was a Fellowship Hall until I saw Dundee and Homer talk about placing a TELEPORTER in Britain for people to be able to access it more easily. Dang! The ONLY town to country teleporter in the WORLD dedicated to some guy's house (bear in mind this was BEFORE there was any rune libraries, or quest museums). The FH was involved in countless quest events after that. It simply was a place everyone was supposed to know about and that didn't happen because Homer was on the boards advertising everyday. No, there was MORE THAN ONE person making sure the legacy of the FH lived on. Most of those people are gone now (including Homer) and that legacy is slowly dying.

Roleplaying has nothing to do with players taking initiative to create a world they want to play in.

Roleplaying has EVERYTHING to do with creating a fantasy world. Just think about what you are saying. WoD is a multiplayer fantasy roleplaying game and people need to believe in that fantasy for the world to continue to exist! How did the whole Queen deal came about, anyway? Do you know? Well, I tell you it didn't just happen. It took weeks of pestering Preacher and Dundee for them to do something about our monarchless fantasy world (that's right, I couldn't just proclaim someone Queen, Seers needed to do that). It took Homer's countless posts--his vision of what our world would be like--and people responding to that vision for the fantasy to become reality. It took a player based that BELIEVED in this fantasy and supported its creation. I remember spending night after night DREAMING about what WoD was going to be like. We were writing the history of WoD in our heads before that history ever happened. Those were truly amazing times. We had a dream and we had an unwavering HOPE that dream would become reality, and that it did with the help of Dundee, Shade, Arimethea and countless other Admins and Seers. That's right, without their help none of this would have ever happened. Without their help there would be no Queen or Bishop Duncan, there would be no order and chaos guards, there would be NOTHING.

Why is everything doomed? So far I haven't seen anything that's stopping anyone from attempting whatever they desire...except maybe lack of motivation? Or lack of time?

It's doomed because no one player is going to play here forever. Once they're gone, their dreams die with them. Nothing lives on, it's all lost. Since Homer left, how many newbies have you heard talking about the Fellowship Hall? One day Ciara and Roderick will leave us too and what is to happen to the Haunt? We are losing our past, our history, as we speak, and that is because there's no one around to maintain it, to keep it alive.

Just about every country in the world has laws of historical preservation. Museums, libraries, the cultural remains of their past are protected by law. Here in the states the US government will go a long way in helping people to create and maintain a museum (I took a class on Museum Research & Design so I'm kinda familiar with that). Individuals and communities must do most of the work themselves, but once that Museum is created, the government takes it upon itself to see that it is well run and maintained.

I fail to see why WoD seer/admins should not try to do something similar. Players come and go, but the Admins are supposed to keep the values and vision of the shard constant. Shouldn't maintaing WoD history be included in their duties?
I can sit in the bank all day and tell wonderful stories about the Fellowship Hall and its former glory. No one is going to listen to me. But just how difficult would it be for a seer to retell the story in one simple quest?

Here are some examples of what I've seen over the years on OSI: rune library, treasure map library, player run auctions, shard history museums, reading rooms, etc.

Done, done, done, and done (don't think we've had reading rooms, though I could be wrong). Where are they now?

I'm not saying all or any of these would work here, but none of those people had OSI GMs helping them. Most of them were projects done by one or two people who were inspired and got a little creative with the tools they were given. What makes us so different?

WE ARE NOT OSI AND OUR ADMINS ARE NOT OSI ADMINS! Please, stop comparing us with them. If you want WoD to go the way OSI shards have gone, that's your prerogative. Personally, I don't. As you say most projects are started by one or two inspired players but that's not the end of it. It is up to their guildmembers to keep those things alive. Take player-run towns for instance. How long would a player run town last without players to run it. How long would a library? or a museum?

Last time I checked we were in short supply of 'fellow guildmembers.' Most people in WoD don't want to inconvinience themselves taking care of someone's else's dream. Sad but true. Problem is, that does not help us as a community to have a distintively unique cultural identity. All those minor projects started by lone dreamers are what have made WoD great. We're not asking that you dream that dream for us. We're asking your support, in whatever form that may come.

If you've come to tell us, "that's your thing, you're on your own," then you might as well tell us to not do it at all. If you kill the hope, all is lost.

You sound frustrated, Joram, and I can understand some of it. I'm just as frustrated, if not more so, as you or any other player. I've had my hands tied for oh...about a year and half now. Of course, when you give a lot of yourself and people clamour for "more," it's kind of hard to have a positive response. All I've seen so far are a series of excuses, but no real reasons why players can't take ownership of their shard and make a difference.

Because it isn't our job, Laephis. We're players. Ideally, we're supposed to collect loot, form social structures and go on quests. The game isn't designed for player-world-building. It's designed for player interaction. That players want and desire to build things is great, but it's beyond their means. That's what I've come to believe, and I think it's where Joram has been for a long time.

The Fellowship Hall is dying. S.C.C is long dead. The Upstarts are gone. The Kilt Warriors lasted briefly. Atei's Scribes Guild, chess tournaments, naked hunts.. few and far between. Apparently there was even a player-town for some time. Where's that now? Seven out of Eight towns sit abandoned for most of the time. All of these things have the same thing in common: they were all player-run.

But anyway, someone has offered a house for the library. It can sit there and just .. exist. I am still very proud of the library and I hope it sees some use in the future. The books are very interesting, and they fit in very well with WoD. I'm sure they'll be a treat for anyone who comes to visit.

-M