theworldofdreams.com

by **Tamla Tamara** on Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:40 pm

Azzo Ranar wrote:Tamla, you can be a princess, I think you rate at least that high lol

I'm a little princess short and stout,
Here is my maid who won't let me pout.
When I get all steamed up hear me shout!
Liselle, my dear, will fix it no doubt!

by **Liselle** on Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:28 pm

awwwwww
*blushes*
thank you!
*curtseys*

by **Oin Zea** on Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:47 pm

Fellow players, I have not connected to this forum or game for a wile. I though it was over with this matter. There is nothing personal against any of you here. I could say it was my mistake or that I misunderstood. It really doesnâ€™t matter.

But I donâ€™t think macroin is well defined on the server. Administrations talks about â€œencourageâ€

by **mack the fisher** on Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:12 am

Id like to state my opinion on the matter.
Macroing ruins the game. The rules clearely state macroing is discouraged Ive macro'd makeing scrolls or getting some stats up before and ive been disconected it happens for a reason. Also dont try and come to the shard and try and change the rules. The admins have worked very hard here. Also if your wondering why I hate macroing another shard ive played on I played my character actively for over 3 years getting quite powerfull and skilled without macroing. Two new players came used advanced macro programs such as the one your useing and maxed out four characters. Every single skill at 100 in under four months. Then they screwed the econemy by macroing mineing. Sorry bud your out of luck.
On the subject of you being gated I agree it was an attack on you but you take your chances when macroing.

by **Avyn Asu** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:08 pm

mack the fisher wrote:Macroing ruins the game. The rules clearely state macroing is discouraged Ive macro'd makeing scrolls or getting some stats up before and ive been disconected it happens for a reason. Also dont try and come to the shard and try and change the rules. The admins have worked very hard here.

I don't think Oin ever said anything about changing the rules. He only said he would have appreciated it if the rules had been plainly stated. He spent a lot of time on this shard, because he thought he was allowed to do a certain thing, and then he finds out that he's not allowed to do it, even though it's not really against the rules.

by **Laephis** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:22 pm

Avyn Asu wrote:
mack the fisher wrote:Macroing ruins the game. The rules clearely state macroing is discouraged Ive macro'd makeing scrolls or getting some stats up before and ive been disconected it happens for a reason. Also dont try and come to the shard and try and change the rules. The admins have worked very hard here.

I don't think Oin ever said anything about changing the rules. He only said he would have appreciated it if the rules had been plainly stated. He spent a lot of time on this shard, because he thought he was allowed to do a certain thing, and then he finds out that he's not allowed to do it, even though it's not really against the rules.

The rules are plainly stated. He is allowed to macro, no one said it was forbidden. But he identified himself as a chronic public macroer and those people will find themselves running into problems. Is that really so hard to understand? He cried like a spoiled baby when he was inconvenienced and his "playstyle" of AFK macroing was disturbed. If he doesn't like it, he's free to try other shards.

by **Hunter Keith** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:32 pm

I will be brief.

The person who gated was WRONG. They should apologize.

Call a GM (or dont depends on who you are), they will enforce the rules.Period.

Your not staff, dont act like it.

If I remember THAT is what the first post was about, him being wronged,( it doesnt matter what he was doing at the time)....

Unattended macroing is WRONG. Attended is NOT.

because he was macroing( not against the rules per se) doesnt mitigate the fact that a crime was commited against him.. even if both are wrong BOTH are wrong, see what I mean?

ok not as short as I thought.

HKP
These are my Opinions, deal.

by **Avyn Asu** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:44 pm

Laephis wrote:The rules are plainly stated. He is allowed to macro, no one said it was forbidden. But he identified himself as a chronic public macroer and those people will find themselves running into problems. Is that really so hard to understand? He cried like a spoiled baby when he was inconvenienced and his "playstyle" of AFK macroing was disturbed. If he doesn't like it, he's free to try other shards.

Um, actually, yes it is hard to understand. From what I've read in this thread, the rules say that unattended macroing is discouraged because some people find it to be rude, but the rules don't say that it is forbidden, or that there will be any action taken for doing it. But if the staff catches you doing it, they will kick you offline and watch you closer from now on to kick you offline any future time they suspect your doing it. (Yes, that is punishment--mild punishment granted, but still punishment.) So, I've come to the conclusion that it's not against the rules, but the staff will punish you for doing it. Is that about right?

Why not just say in the rules that it's not allowed, rather than say it's discouraged? Seems to me that would clarify something that is obviously not clear, and eliminate the need for this whole argument. I think that's all Oin is asking for too, if I understood his posts about it.

by **Joram Lionheart** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:16 pm

Avyn Asu wrote:From what I've read in this thread, the rules say that unattended macroing is discouraged because some people find it to be rude, but the rules don't say that it is forbidden, or that there will be any action taken for doing it.

The Rules wrote:9. Absentee macroing while in public. This is rude. Having a macro that spams the screen while you're away is doubly rude . . . For most offenses, Player Relations will afford a punishment suitable to the scale of the offense.

Unattended macroing IS against the rules and that is clearly stated. The method of punishment for breaking rule #9 is for the Admins to decide. As it stands, the current "punishment" isn't much of a punishment at all (no bank wipes, no character deletion, no account banning). People who knowingly break rule #9 shouldn't even be complaining about getting randomly disconnected once in a blue moon. If rule #9 was seriously enforced, there wouldn't even be a need to have this discussion right now. Is that really what you are looking for? Get your account banned or character deleted if an Admin finds you absentee-macroing?

So, I've come to the conclusion that it's not against the rules, but the staff will punish you for doing it. Is that about right?

Wrong. Go back and re-read the rules. Oin was absentee macroing (he even described to us the method that he uses to break rule #9) and he recieved proper punishment. It has happened to me, it has happened to a lot of people other than Oin, and I don't see what's so special about him that he should be so upset about getting disconnected.

by **Dell-Leafsong** on Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:45 pm

Other shards I've played on, the GM's would keep track of how many times they've had to kick a player for macroing. After a certain number of offenses (2, I think), you could be jailed. If jailing failed to break you of the habit, you would be banned.

The admins here don't go that far, but that doesn't mean they give the green light to AFK macroing. I cannot believe we're still debating whether this is against the rules or too gray for folks to figure out. It is not a gray area at all. Brother Joram quoted the rules page (thanx), and it is clear as day that it is against the rules to macro AFK.

They've had the rules written like that for longer than I've been playing here, and I have a real hard time finding any wiggle room in there where y'all are finding this hard to figure out.

I suppose, I'm just posting to concur with BJ (Brother Joram). Does the punishment have to be BANNING before something can be considered against the rules? Pardon my French, but that's just plain...stupide!

by **Chelsea Duklain** on Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:08 am

Brother Joram did not quote the rules page correctly. It simply says:

Absentee macroing while in public. This is rude. Having a macro that spams the screen while you're away is doubly rude.

It says nothing about possible punishment or that this is clearly and without question against the rules.

I, personally, do not agree with macroing. I think it takes away from the fun and the challenge of achieving certain levels if you sit around watching television and have your character working on something. From a gamer's stand point, I feel it's a form of cheating.

BUT...big but here, I'm not defending Oin. I'm defending his original statement of "It doesn't say it's against the rules on the rules page."

And it clearly doesn't. You people can candy coat it all you want. You can be as hateful, as sarcastic, as holier than thou as you want but it doesn't say it in the rules and you darn well know it. People don't just get on this shard and suddenly suck up the "WoDian" feeling by osmosis. It has to be taught to you and you people are doing a piss poor job of teaching it.

Clarify the rules and there would be no more problems. Get rid of this mafia mentality of "we've dealt with stuff this way for five years and no one's complained about it". Someone is complaining about it. They don't understand why they were punished for something clearly not in the rules.

Quote me. Dissect me. Call me a troll. Delete my account. Whatever you feel necessary but you guys need to realize that fact is fact.

And personally, I find that any administration that speaks to it's players as rudely as Laephis does isn't the place that I want to be anyway. It's rude and downright unprofessional.

I used to love this shard. I used to be totally excited about being here but you people have made me dread reading the boards and dread signing on.

Thanks a lot,

Chelsea the Finished

by **Eldric** on Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:27 am

Chelsea Duklain wrote:Brother Joram did not quote the rules page correctly. It simply says:

Absentee macroing while in public. This is rude. Having a macro that spams the screen while you're away is doubly rude.

It says nothing about possible punishment or that this is clearly and without question against the rules.

The bit about punnishment appears a bit further down and would seem to apply to all the above listed rules.

by **Joram Lionheart** on Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:52 am

Chelsea Duklain wrote:It says nothing about possible punishment or that this is clearly and without question against the rules.

Here is the entire transcript from rules section (read carefully):

The Rules wrote:This document is intended to serve as a guideline for players, both as a Code of Conduct as well as a Bill of Rights - as most of the restrictions placed on players are actually to ensure the other players have an enjoyable environment in which to play. Most of the rules are somewhat vague, use common sense and adhere to the spirit of the law. LISTED BELOW ARE UNDESIREABLE ACTIVITIES FROM WHICH PLAYERS SHOULD ABSTAIN:

1. Harassment. This includes making out of character threats, sending unwanted messages when asked to stop, using offensive language, making unwanted out-of-character attacks or comments, or using in-character justifications for what are really out-of-character assaults.

2. Attacking other characters without the players' consent. This is not a PK shard, it's players versus the environment. Consensual PvP - where the players agree their characters will fight, an organized war, a challenge to duel which is accepted, etc. - is allowed.

3. Theft. This includes taking items from other players' houses without their permission, looting their kills, looting other players without their permission. Don't take things that don't belong to you. Tame animals and animals in houses, pens or corrals should be considered the property of the person that owns house, pen or corral, or is the pet's master.

4. Sexually explicit language, cursing, and slurs are not permitted in public areas, nor as part of character names. Such language may be prohibited even in private messages, to the extent it amounts to harassment.

5. Asking GMs or Seers to change your stats or skills (except in the case of repairing damage caused by a bug) is not permitted, nor is getting or asking them to create items, npcs, or to confer any other unfair advantage.

6. Players are limited to one account, which is in turn limited to 5 characters.

7. If you find a bug, you must report it. Taking advantage of a bug is not permitted.

8. Making false accusations under these rules is itself a punishable offense.

9. Absentee macroing while in public. This is rude. Having a macro that spams the screen while you're away is doubly rude.

10. Being obnoxious repeatedly, or as a matter of playstyle. Giving a character an inappropriate name is considered obnoxious behavior. [see below]

Violations of these rules should be reported to GMs. If immediate action is necessary, the GM will jail the offending character and report the incident to Player Relations.

FOR MOST OFFENSES, PLAYER RELATIONS WILL AFFORD A PUNISHMENT SUITABLE TO THE SCALE OF THE OFFENSE:

In the case of Harassment, PKing, or Theft, the offending character may be, and probably will be, deleted. For repeated offenses, the matter will be referred to the Lead Administrator.

For deliberately crashing The World of Dreams, the matter will be referred to the Lead Administrator.
For any other offense, a warning is likely on the "first offense". Repeat offenses will result in loss of stats, lowering of skills, bankwipes and other property deletion, or character deletion. Continued offenses beyond that point will be referred to the Lead Administrator.

The Lead Administrator will afford a punishment suitable to the scale of the offense(s) up to, and including, banning the account.

Players have the right to play free of harassment.
This is not a PK shard and players can expect they will not be randomly attacked by other players.
Players should lock their homes, lockdown their furniture, use such security as the game provides. However, players still have the right to expect their fellow players will not take their things.
Players have the right the play without having to listen to sexually explicit language, cursing, and slurs. Keep in mind, however, that when players are alone, they can say anything they like. Players, GMs and Seers who are concealed and eavesdropping on other players, are forfeiting their right to be offended by anything they might hear.
Players do not have, because we cannot guarantee it, the right to privacy. Other players can move while concealed and eavesdrop (although this could also be considered as obnoxious behavior). GMs and Seers will need to watch players from time to time without the players' knowledge or consent. However, GMs and Seers will limit this activity to such times as it is necessary for the completion of the task at hand. i.e. Seers will secretly monitor players when the seer is running a quest, but not otherwise. GMs will secretly watch players when the GM is answering a help page or as part of an investigation, but not otherwise.

Note that any other sort of behavior may or may not be deemed appropriate for WoD. We try to maintain a "family friendly" environment. If a situation arises in which an Admin feels players need to stop doing something, the admin will advise the players to stop doing it. That advisement should be considered by the players as an immediate ammendment to the rules of WoD.

It doesn't get much clearer than that. There are ten rules. Rule #9 CLEARLY says absentee macroing is rude. Does it need to specify what kind of punishment GMs can or cannot use to enforce this RULE (because if it is part of "THE RULES" it is a RULE you know?) In case there's any question about whether or not rule #9 is going to be enforced there is a clause at the beginning that CLEARLY states "players should abstain" from breaking these rules (all 10 of them). Then there is another clause stating that GMs WILL enforce all of these rules providing a punishment "suitable to the scale of the offense." How much clearer can you get? It clearly is part of the rules, it says players should abstain from breaking the rules, and it also says punishment will be incured on rulebreakers.

Also notice that what that player did to Oin amounts to a physical attack on his character and therefore is also against the rules. No question about that.

by **loakie666** on Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:20 am

#9 is rude Big freakin Deal. Being rude if against the rules, a lot of poster's would have been booted by now. Chelsea, I like your post. I can see certain things here. Now, do note I will be blunt and to some that is considered rude. Guess what Cry me a river for i will not care. Public Macroing would be consedered rude i can understand that who wants to hold a conversation with someone not there. If they are off in the middle of the wood's or a beach away from a town who cares if they macro. If i did which i don't and someone gated me to my death there would be HELL to pay one way or another. Now, Joram the almighty rule sayer. Copy and paste my thoughts break them down just shows me what an ass you might be. Everyone has the right to macro in their own space. Although it may seem as cheating or whatever some see it as. They may get disconnected . Maybe after a bunch of that they would get annoyed and stopped. If not hey they waste their time signing off and on. I don't macro and don't realy care , why is that one reason mainly. IT'S a FREAKING GAME! If they are not hurting anyone who the frell cares what one does. For Britain sakes let's just drop this darn argument and play. This isn't helping newbies make a choice to join if all the oldbies are freaking about some lil thing like macroing. Remeber this is just a game. ::Repeat:: This is just a game. Now back to our regularly good playing on WoD. :warrior:

by **Joram Lionheart** on Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:01 am

Chelsea Duklain wrote:but you guys need to realize that fact is fact.

I agree with Chelsea here. A fact is a fact. I didn't write the rules. You want to pretend absentee macroing isn't one, go right ahead. It's not my problem (nor is it the Admins'). Just don't act all surprised when a GM tries to enforce a rule--in whichever way he or she chooses--that is clearly stated.

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