theworldofdreams.com

I really don't know why I'm writing this. Probably because a part of me still wants people to understand the points going through my head that I can't seem to convey in the written word. For most of you this will be a long, tedius and boring post that will not have any meaning to you at all or you won't care one bit but I feel the need to try to express myself to the best of my ability.

I didn't leave WOD for one reason I left for several that to me made my playing on this particular shard unenjoyable. Yes, I know some of you are thinking "You left already. Why don't you get the hell out and stay gone." I'm sorry but as much as I hate to admit it, WOD gets into your system and whether you want to or not, you start to care. It's the first and only UO I've ever played. I didn't have the misfortune of playing on OSI or any other shard. WOD was my first.

I've been part of an online text based RPG for seven years. I have been and currently am involved in the administration of that RPG. I've always been involved in the politics of my gaming. I feel it's imperative to do anything possible to assist in the progress of any game that anyone participates in. Not to mention I'm not the type that can't possibly read something and not respond if I think a point is being overlooked or someone is being wrongfully judged. With that being said, it explains my inability to keep from posting on the boards my personal thoughts and opinions on the subject matter.

That's the first point. I'm not finger pointing and I'm not insulting. I'm trying to express how I feel in the most mature and unoffensive manner that I can. WOD has a select group of gamers that feel it's their duty and responsiblity to defend their game. I applaud that. But at the risk of defending it, they're condescending, slightly insultive and demeaning to other players that have expressed their own opininions. As someone once stated, this is a discussion forum. It's for discussion therefore any subject posted shouldn't be considered taboo. When this selective group thinks their game has been offended, they immediately go into attack mode and start doing "damage control" usually ending with the impression that if the original poster doesn't like it, they can get the hell out.

If a friend loaned you a book, you read it and you didn't like it at all. When they asked about it would you smile and say "I loved every minute of it because I didn't have to buy it!"? What if a close friend took you out to lunch and you had the worst meal you've ever had. Would you then say "That was wonderful because you paid for it!"? What about if your boss handed you new pencils and you realized they had no lead. You walk up to him and say "These pencils have no lead." He glares at you and says "Why are you complaining, they're free." Just because something is free doesn't make it right. The shard is free and for that many people are thankful. As someone else said it is amazing what free can buy these days. The administration donates their own time to run this shard for the pure enjoyment of other people. No one has ever forgotten that. No one ever takes that for granted.

To some people the shard is wonderful but they feel as if something is missing. They only want to help make it better. They don't understand why their suggestions are considered insultive and they sure as hell don't understand why they're getting beat to death on the forums simply for suggesting a new shoe style or for asking if something is or could be made available. Just because someone suggests something does not mean it's a complaint. I think a lot of people fail to see that. A suggestion is a far cry from a complaint. Not everyone has the writing ability, nor the inclination, to post a query that isn't offensive to just about every group out there. It's not possible. Someone is always going to find offense with it. That happens here far too often. A person can post an inquiry, they make the mistake of wording it incorrectly and whammo, they're shot, dressed and served up for the rest of the group to gnaw on. They walk away from the boards thinking "How the heck did that happen? They hate me." Then the defensive mechanism kicks in and the next time they're hateful. That's just fuel for the fire and those that did the roasteing are pointing and saying "See? I told you he/she was a jerk. This only proves my point." and they walk off all proud of themselves because they shot yet another person down.

Why would anyone feel the need to continually insult, degrade and generally make others feel incompetent all the while labeling it logical, mature and intelligent discussion?

How would you feel if every decision, every opinion was analyzed by some guy with a clipboard standing next to you.
"Sir, why did you buy that particular brand of cereal?"
"Because I like the box."
"Did you evern consider what's inside the box?"
"Yes, it says I get a free Bobblehead."
"I meant, are you buying this cereal because you've tried it before and found it to your liking?"
"Well, no. I was going strictly on asthetic box quality."
"Well that's just stupid. You can't judge a cereal by it's box"
"Everyone...this man is an idiot. He said he buys cereal strictly because he likes the box. Anyone else wanna take a whack at him?"

If the guy wants to buy cereal based on what the box looks like...that's his right. He doesn't need someone evaluating every move or opinion he makes. I hate seeing someone post on the boards then get ripped to shreds for some minor thing. It irks me and I feel the need to don my superhero cape and tights and rush to their defense. I end up drowning us both but that doesn't mean I should stop trying to help. One day, I just might get it right and actually rescue someone.

I must admit, I've done my share of gnashing of teeth and posting condescending responses. I'm only human and when I get riled I get snotty like any other human being. Don't expect that to change because I plan on being human until I die.

As far as my issue with administration, as I said, I've been on that side and it's VERY hard not to have personal feelings toward a particular subject or person but we always have to try our best. I felt that by calling a player a cry baby on the message boards was a bit over the line but then again, I'm not familiar with the ethics of this administration so I had no call to be offensive. I pointed out my opinion and should have left it at that.

When someone said I had left another player said something about "OSI is looking for good players". Ironic that this player didn't even know me personally yet felt the overwhelming desire to suggest that I would fit in with OSI quite nicely. I don't know about OSI, never played there but I've heard nothing good about it. This leads me to question: If you don't know someone at all, how can you suggest they go to a particular place for their enjoyment? Or was that player just trying to fit in with the group and be snide? I didn't see a response to anything that I had posted before so it must have just been one of those players who felt they needed to defend their "home" from someone who had left it. ????

And Liselle, I'm clearing the air. I didn't hide any insults from you. The post was pretty self explanitory. I was telling you to shut up. Which I had no right to do but it is a discussion forum. I will apologize for hurting your feelings but not for letting you know that the posts were getting on my nerves.I have that right just as much as you have a right to post them.

Recently I've had the sweetest little birdie perched on my shoulder chirping in my ear in the evenings and I've come to realize that we had some very good friends on WOD. I played them off as just people in the game but now that I've gotten to know a few on a more personal level, I think WOD is damn lucky to have the player base that it has. You have a solid group of good people that are here not only to play the game but to be with friends. I never realized I was considered one of those friends and now that I know that I am, it warms my heart. I'm not sure if Thomas and I will return but I did want people to know, WOD isn't just a place you can pack up and leave no matter if you delete all your chars or not. I keep finding myself drawn to the boards to see how people are doing and what's going on. I think I will always be checking the boards so be careful what you say about the departed, they may rise up from the dead to haunt you.

Thank you for the opportunity to play on your shard.

Chelsea

Please don't leave. Give it just a little longer and the humanity buried deep down inside everyone may just surprise you.

You guys were among the few left on the shard from when I started over a year ago that made a hude impact on me. I know we never really hunted together but I always saw your names during the quests around that time and I looked up too you.

I guess what I'm saying is, please don't leave because of the silly crap that goes on here on the boards. If it's more friendly people that you want then by all means if I'm in game, message me and we will go kick the crap out of some trolls or something.

If you are still leaving then I say this:

Good luck... and good journey.
*bows*

Chelsea Duklain wrote:I must admit, I've done my share of gnashing of teeth and posting condescending responses. I'm only human and when I get riled I get snotty like any other human being. Don't expect that to change because I plan on being human until I die.

I must admit, I do not any other way to post than the human way. When I believe in something, you can bet I'm going to be 'gnashing teeth' and voicing my opinion the best I know how (and short of personal attacks, everything's fair in my book). However, there is no reason why we could have a heated argument on these forums and not be the best of friends in-game (and sometimes the reverse is true). As long as one does not cross the line of insulting the other person, nothing that is said on these boards should be taken personally, and this is where I believe 99% of all so-called "flame wars" originate. Just because I think your idea sucks, doesn't mean I think you suck (using the generic "you" here). Anyone who fails to realize this is going to run into problems on these forums.

If you find yourself infuriated by someone else's reply to your post, stop for a second and think carefully about what the other person is saying. Is it really that offensive to you that someone would disagree with you?

Chelsea, I never really got to know you that well but I will say I've always respected you if not always liked your opinions. I look forward to the day we may look back on old arguments and laugh about 'such silliness' together

Come back, I miss you.

WoD isn't the same without the Duklains. I miss geting beat up by Thomas and arguing with you about all matters political. I miss oogling all the houses you so expertly decorate and I miss the sense of family I have with, when i'm around you. I think the word is providence (?) is what you bring to the shard, at least for me.

We can even start new chars together; I want to re-make my virtue guard and that'd be fun to play with you.

And I don't think you miss WoD, I think you miss your friends. At least, I hope so.

I could really use a friend at the moment. Come back, please?

-M

Joram Lionheart wrote:
I must admit, I do not any other way to post than the human way. When I believe in something, you can bet I'm going to be 'gnashing teeth' and voicing my opinion the best I know how (and short of personal attacks, everything's fair in my book). However, there is no reason why we could have a heated argument on these forums and not be the best of friends in-game (and sometimes the reverse is true). As long as one does not cross the line of insulting the other person, nothing that is said on these boards should be taken personally, and this is where I believe 99% of all so-called "flame wars" originate. Just because I think your idea sucks, doesn't mean I think you suck (using the generic "you" here). Anyone who fails to realize this is going to run into problems on these forums.

This is the point I think a lot of people miss. The fact is, the people who post here are, for the most part, people who play the game. I have always been told that the Boards and The Game are separate entities, but clearly they are not. If someone attacks on these boards, it DOES carry over to The Game. Joram, I don't think that's a failing of the people who post here--it's human nature. If you call me a jerk on these boards, you better damn well know I will remember it next time I see you in game. That makes sense, doesn't it?

Celeste is a prime example of this. Now, I know that some will say it wasn't what she posted, it was how she posted. Regardless, she got attacked on these boards for her views on cliques and other things, and she ended up leaving the game. I doubt seriously anyone attacked her in game for her views. Clearly, there is a connection between the Boards and The Game.

If you look at it objectively, would you want to associate yourself with someone in game who attacked you on the Boards? Let me put it another way: if someone feels a certain way on the Boards, is there any reason to think they don't feel the same way in game? They are the same person, aren't they?

I think a lot of people think that "anything goes" when it comes to these Boards, and maybe that's true. Maybe that's the way it has to be. I am a proponent of Free Speech as much as anyone else, but I think that Free Speech, in relation to these Boards, needs to be tempered by sensitivity to people's feelings. The fact is, we are all people with feelings, and when we get attacked here, it has to carry over to the Game. That to me is human nature. Maybe I am overly sensitive, but when I see good people leaving The Game because of what happens on these Boards, it has me asking why.

We need to be able to have open, honest discussions on these Boards without having to worry about being attacked by the "Defenders of WoD" or whomever. If we truly love this shard and want what is best for it, we have to accept that changes need to be made in order for it grow. I want to feel free to post what I really think about things that need to be discussed, but I have to say, I'm a bit leery to do that.

I love this Shard. I love the fact that it is stable and has been around for so long with no shard wipes. I love the fact that people play from all over the world on this Shard, together. I love the fact that it's free and that the Admins do these amazing things for free. When you love something, you want what is best for it. Having people leave the Game because of these Boards isn't what's best for WoD. Enough are gone already due to real life issues and other things--we don't need to add bodies to the pile.

In closing, I leave you with this snip from the Wiccan Rede to ponder. "Ever mind the law of threes; what ye sends forth comes back to thee." If you send forth trouble, it comes back on you times three. If you send forth goodness, that comes back on you times three. When next you feel the need to post, please keep that in mind. Or maybe a simpler way to put it is: if you can't say something nice, maybe you don't need to say anything at all.

Well put, Atei. Could not have said it better myself.

should you leave us permanently I will miss you and Aimee. Never did get to know thomas but then no one told me he liked to talk politics hehe.

the important thing to remember is that the discussion boards are separate entities from wod itself and what happens on the boards only rarely comes in game. many people fail to cool off before posting it seems and worse do not respond well to criticism. for instance when someone disects a post it's not because they are a flaming sadist it's because they care enough to explain in some detail why they disagree with what was posted. there are also a few people around who seem to enjoy stirring the point just for the heck of it. the biggest hot button for the oldbie "clique" is when someone disparages the admins. this will certainly draw a response from several of us.

by the way if you think things get "interesting" now you should have been around when felix and dirk were shredding the odd doofus.

WoD has worked for the best part of 5 years now and has experienced mad cap change and a considered deliberate pace. I think i speak for most of us when i say that deliberate beats mad cap. so we tend to be resistant to someone coming along with their list of things to "improve" wod. we've seen changes come along that upset game balance in a mighty way and it's not the way we have chosen to do things. It's not that we are against change we just want to be fairly sure it's not going to screw things up.

I point to my "Marius Guide to Forum Posting" as I say 'I told you so'.

-M

Atei wrote: If you look at it objectively, would you want to associate yourself with someone in game who attacked you on the Boards?

That's why you're not supposed to attack any one person on the boards. If you do, you're probably making enemies here and in-game. You're supposed to attack the issues, and as long as you stick to the issues then you should be OK.

Let's take Celeste as an example again. Was she attacking the issues or the people behind those issues? I don't think she makes a distinction between those two. Excuse me, I take that back. I KNOW she doesn't make a distiction and hence the reason why she's made so many enemies (myself included). At first I thought she was just a strongly opinionated person like myself (I even once commended her on her views) but alas she's turned out to be nothing more than a glorified flamer. Whatever view, whatever position she was supposed to be defending got lost in all that other unnecessary crap that she uttered from her mouth. Now whenever she posts you can bet there's a flame war on the horizon.

The fact is, we are all people with feelings, and when we get attacked here, it has to carry over to the Game.

I don't think you realize the relatively few number of flames that occur on these boards. A flame, for anyone who doesn't know or isn't sure, is a personal attack from one person to another, usually the result of an argument gone bad. I can say "your idea is downright ridiculous and it will never work" all I want (granted that may not be the most political way to phrase it). I cannot, however, say "YOU are ridiculous" because that is a direct affront on that person (and except for Celeste, I don't think I've ever called anyone ridiculous here). The REAL problem stems from posters not being able to see the difference. Human nature dictactes that when someone tells you you are wrong, you are not going to like it. Get over it.

That to me is human nature. Maybe I am overly sensitive, but when I see good people leaving The Game because of what happens on these Boards, it has me asking why.

First of all, no one leaves because of what happens on these boards. They leave because they made a conscious decision to leave. More importantly, there's nothing that can literally carry over in-game except for hurt feelings. No one is allowed to harrass you or persecute you in-game in any way or form. Secondly, except for Simon the Troll, I have yet to see anyone get truly harrassed on these forums. Take Oin's post for instance. A lot of people cried bloody murder when they realized some people actually had an opinion different than theirs about macroing. Was he getting harrassed or persecuted? OF COURSE NOT! He told the entire shard he macroes and naturally a lot of people gave their opinions on macroing (whether warranted or not is a moot point because these are PUBLIC forums).

If we truly love this shard and want what is best for it, we have to accept that changes need to be made in order for it grow. I want to feel free to post what I really think about things that need to be discussed, but I have to say, I'm a bit leery to do that.

What is the worst thing that can happen? Someone will say "I HATE THAT IDEA!!!! IT SUCKS!!!" and ten other people following suit? I think the whole notion of msg board piranhas is being blown out of proportion. Like I told Chelsea several posts ago, next time you want to call someone a piranha you better be sure to point out exactly why and how that poster deserves such a derogatory title. If you see a msg board piranha make sure to point it out to me cause I've never seen one. I don't think I would even call Celeste a piranha (though I might call her other things . . .)

If you can't say something nice, maybe you don't need to say anything at all.

You do realize this is a terrible saying, don't you? I'm not about to go off on a tangent an argue this but let's just say this isn't a maxim one should live by, much less teach your children (that's right, just ask a child psychologist).

Gotta go with Atei on this one. I quit because of the rude people on the boards that always have an opinion on anything and everything. I quit because the general consesus on the board was to see who could blow smoke the longest. Not everyone wants to debate for three years over whether mustard or ketchup is better on a hot dog. Some people thrive on that and I can only assume they have nothing better to do.

When I see these people in game that have offended me --I wanna smack 'em. That doesn't make me less perfect than anyone else just because I get mad about something and don't want to play with someone. We do that when we're little. If we get our feelings hurt we pack up our toys and go home.

You're normal if you have an opinion.
You're an ass if you try to shove it down everyone else's throat.

Chelsea

Joram, how can you make statements like that given what has happened recently? Didn't you read that Chelsea quit BECAUSE OF THE BOARDS? Didn't you read that Celeste quit BECAUSE OF THE BOARDS? I left for a while BECAUSE OF THE BOARDS. I know of others but I will not name them because that isn't my place.

You make these blanket statements about how nobody quits because of the boards and yet the fact is, you're wrong. You make these blanket statements about how nothing can carry over from the Boards to the Game except hurt feelings, yet we are all humans and we all have feelings.

My point was that there is a connection between the Boards and the Game. If you disagree with the idea, where is your proof?

As for what people are "supposed" to do when posting, who made you the person to set these rules? Who ever said you can't name names and point fingers if you feel justified in doing it? I agree you shouldn't post "Joram is a doo-doo head" without explaining that position, but whoever said you couldn't do it? It can and does happen, and when it does, people's feelings get hurt.

You can't have it both ways, Joram. Either they are open forums or they aren't. If they are open, people will post what they feel and they will attack/defend their positions vigorously, just like you. That's the nature of the beast. I just can't believe you don't see that.

heck i took a break because of the boards, people just need to chill though, relax take it easy

I have to go with Atei on this one also. I know not a whole lot of people know us Kaiof's, but for those that do they can tell you, other than to keep our houses fresh my husband and I have not been on wod in over a month. I always try to read the boards in case something important is going on before I get on the game. Inevitably I find very few important things and more fighting/bickering/flaming ... however you want to put it on here. I had a long time where I read nothing but the quest forums, but then found out I was missing other things that would have helped me in game so I started reading all the boards. The way the boards have been lately, by the time I get done either reading or just glancing over it ... I'm no longer in the mood to play. There is a difference of opinion ... and then there is a flat out YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT fighting. TRUST ME I HAVE 2 YOUNG CHILDREN .... these boards haven't sounded much different than they do when they fight lately. Alot of times I tell them "you know what, you have your opinion, she has hers. That doesn't make either one of your opinions wrong so you can discuss them without arguing. It is possible believe it or not." And after they both go off pouting to thier rooms eventually they realize it is possible and start to have an actual discussion on the subject whatever it may be. I get on this game for a BREAK from this type of behavior. But as I said, lately by the time I read the boards (yes only sections of it not the whole board) I feel like I've been listening to my kids again but this time its not with 10 year olds so I know dam good and well if I say something I'm going to have someone not taking what I say for what I'm saying (case in point the start of this thread and then someone saying no one quits because of the boards) and instead turning around and flaming me. I'm appologizing in advance to all the staff. If you make a quest I will not know about it because I am done reading the boards for a while. Maybe then I can actually feel like playing the game again instead of sending everyone to thier rooms for a time out. Go ahead have fun flaming I wont see it.

ps - to my friends .... I miss playing with you .. had a death in the family so I wont be on game for a while anyway but when the funeral is done I'll be back NOT reading the boards first hehe maybe you can update me on quests if you read them

Chelsea
First of all I would like to tell you that your post was a good one, whoever reads it should get something out of it.
I must apologize for what I had said about OSI looking for new players. That was totally uncalled for. I guess I fall into the category of "defending the shard".
The few times that I have encountered you, they were pleasant ones. I know that you are a pleasant person which is why I dont know why I said that about OSI.
I think generally when people say that they are quitting, it bothers me. Now that I've read your post and several others I get to thinking.....why quit? Will that make this place any better? I dont think so. Staying here and trying to make a difference might make this place better.....or perhaps as enjoyable as it once was.
I am willing to try most anything to make this shard enjoyable for me as well as everyone else. Well, anything within reason anyway.
Chelsea, I am asking you to come back and help me along with others to get this shard back to a respectable and fun place to stay.
I am so so sorry for throwing my comments your way when it wasnt deserved. If I could, I would be kicking myself in the butt right now.
Please come back Chelsea, You and your family belong here.
Once again.....I'm sorry.

Herakles

Chelsea,
i enjoyed your post..i too have a lot of the same feelings that you expressed.
I always read these forums from top to bottom, but i usually shy away from responding to the flamed threads because like Khari said it mostly seems like 10 year olds bickering. The He said, She said stuff i can do without..if someone enjoys that thats great but i dont.

I really wish you and Thomas would consider staying, we were just getting to know each other
but i really do miss hunting with you. I consider you friends and im not willing to let you go without you knowing that you are loved here.
Your family could do a lot of good here,you contribute to the welfare of WOD.
We need you.
If you decide not to come back, i wish you well and know that wod wont be the same without you.

~Aislin~