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I too must defend Maddox, who in the time Ive been here has shown nothing but a kind, generous and helpful nature. And I believe he did not mean how his words were interpeted.

Sheena

Well just because I like to talk (or write in this case) I thought I would throw in my 2 cents and my experiences. Well like most players I use different tactics for different situations. Most of the time I hunt in very small parties consisting mainly of 2-4 players. During these smaller hunts I take more of an aggressive stance, hence casting offensive spells. I primarily hunt with the same people every time and we always loot at will. Everyone is fair and everyone splits the loot evenly. On some rare occasions I will join in one of the larger group quests. I would participate more often on the larger quests but some times I am not made aware that they are going on and sometimes I just don't want to deal with the anguish of the large group.

When I join a group quest I always take a healer mage roll. I never loot unless asked to, and I never take a percentage of the loot. My one and only goal for the large quests is to enjoy the fiction being laid out before me. However, it is sometimes difficult to enjoy that fiction when you have the runners going in 8 different directions. First off I start losing meters and secondly it causes too much havoc. I totally agree with Felix that there should be ONE leader and ONE runner. However, we all know that there are often too many runners and too many leaders. I guess it is a case of them wanting to be the big shot of the quest or perhaps it is lack of experience. In any rate group hunts have not been a very pleasurable experience as of recently. Personally I do not mind being in the background and simply doing my job. I am even willing to take a leadership position if a situation calls for it. However, when you have several people barking orders at the same time and several people that don’t listen to any orders then it is total anarchy

I know back when I first joined WOD there was a “group tactics training sessionâ€

got to admit ten deaths in a single quest would cause me to seriously rethink my tactics. i can think of only a single quest that cost me that dearly in the 3+ years i have been questing. in my experience most quests could be handled readily enough by a half dozen or even fewer people who work well as a team. the current tendency to form a somewhat random mob and storm the breach just gets people dead that don't need to be.

Felix Majen wrote:

Eventhia Leir wrote:
If there is anyone around who went on one of the first Vampire quests, when I was the group leader, how many people died and how many people ran ahead? None, there was not one death, we had about 15-20 players, and every one that was there took their own role seriously, and did not just run around. Everyone had an assigned job, and everyone performed their job.

Any further questions?

That was a nasty quest. I have been out in the past with Felix a time or two when the odds were incredibly badly against us and he is absolutely right on this.
if you fight like the valiant celtic warriors of yore you can expect to die in great numbers when you encounter real danger. soldiers on the other hand go to war not to win glory and gold but to do a job. a hard and nasty job but a necessary one. they fight with teamwork and precision and they mostly go home at the end of the day's work rather than littering the world with their bodies.

I would participate more often on the larger quests but some times I am not made aware that they are going on and sometimes I just don't want to deal with the anguish of the large group.

i am not often aware that a quest is going on either, unless i happen to stumble upon it really

When I join a group quest I always take a healer mage roll.

I do as well I thought that is what a mage is supposed to do in a group battle


First off I start losing meters and secondly it causes too much havoc. I know back when I first joined WOD there was a “group tactics training sessionâ€

About the "how dare anyone go on quests just for the loot" type thinking... some people just like to play a game and have fun with the other players and kill lots of baddies and would like some loot at the end of it all. Big deal.

I don't want to put any words in Sebastian's mouth, but...

Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who make a big issue about loot on quests. As soon as they see a magic item get yoinked, they immediately want it identified to see if its something good. They'll obsess over making sure that they get their fair cut of every single gold coin that's found. On several occasions, I've seen people argue that because Player X showed up 30 minutes late to the start of a quest, they don't deserve a full portion of the gold-cut. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I've seen people refuse to go on a quest because they'd rather do something 'worthwhile' (like bard dragons or strip-mine a beach.)

What I'm saying here is that loot on quests kind of a sensitive subject. Its something that we (the GMs and seers of WoD) have talked about quite a bit. Just to be clear, it really isn't a new problem: this sort of thing flares up every few months, it seems. Its just been kind of bad, lately... Getting to the point, Maddox's original post definitely made it sound like he was complaining about the loot on the quest, which is, I think, what upset Sebastian (and I can't say I'm too happy about that sort of thing myself. It definitely hurts when a seer spends time and effort setting up a quest, and the only thanks they get is a player hoarding loot and whining that they could have better spent their time elsewhere.) Its quite possible that the whole thing was simply a misinterprettation, though, and he just happened to say the wrong thing in the wrong way at the wrong time in the wrong place. I'm sorry to say that I don't know Maddox well enough to be able to say for certain either way.

Moving on to another matter: I'd just like to emphasize what's already been said by several people about the importance of players working together on quests. Teamwork definitely plays a major role in not only succeeding on quests, but also having fun on them. That's also true from the seer's perspective: Its pretty disheartening to have a quest turn into a slaughterhouse because a few people decide they know better than everyone else what to do.

Elish Stydoran wrote:About the "how dare anyone go on quests just for the loot" type thinking... some people just like to play a game and have fun with the other players and kill lots of baddies and would like some loot at the end of it all. Big deal.

It is a big deal when it interferes with other people enjoying the quest. Players who are only in it for the loot are, in my experience, little more than a distraction on quests. Its very annoying when a quest grinds to a halt because someone simply MUST know what that *a magic halberd* was that someone else just looted, or worse yet, interrupts a seer towards the end because they have to leave in 15 minutes so they want their cut of the loot NOW, screw what the quest was about.

To sum up: there are tons of good places to find money and magic items. Quests are not one of those places.

if I had to choose between questing with people like Felix, C, Rod, Ed, Mich, etc.. and questing with some that have been attending the recent quests, I wouldn't have to think twice. Some of these people have been playing on WoD close to 4 years. I think everyone could learn a lot by listening to them.

Tel'Imoen wrote:if I had to choose between questing with people like Felix, C, Rod, Ed, Mich, etc.. and questing with some that have been attending the recent quests, I wouldn't have to think twice. Some of these people have been playing on WoD close to 4 years. I think everyone could learn a lot by listening to them.

i hear what you are saying, and only have one thing to say about it. if the newbies aren't questing the way the oldbies do or the way you would like them to, why not take the time to teach them rather than publicly posting that you don't care for it? the negative posts only tend to drive more people away from the questing scene.

Gabriella wrote:

Tel'Imoen wrote:if I had to choose between questing with people like Felix, C, Rod, Ed, Mich, etc.. and questing with some that have been attending the recent quests, I wouldn't have to think twice. Some of these people have been playing on WoD close to 4 years. I think everyone could learn a lot by listening to them.

i hear what you are saying, and only have one thing to say about it. if the newbies aren't questing the way the oldbies do or the way you would like them to, why not take the time to teach them rather than publicly posting that you don't care for it? the negative posts only tend to drive more people away from the questing scene.

Right now I'm questing with some non-oldbie players and we're going great. A few them are actually commenting on how great it is to not have henchies or pets around. Oh and if anyone cares, Greywolfe rocks. Great to have in any party

I really dont understand this tone of the discussion on these forums.

First it was about etiquette and working together, then this discussion about loot.

The discussion on these forums should be just as friendly as this shard is and opinions should be free.

I hope everyone reads this part of Daalia´s comment and thinks about it for a few seconds.

-try to be friendly
-respect the opinions others have
-try to remember that we have people of all ages and many nationalities.

To Sebastian:

The loot once again

I never bolded those words "once" and "again" in my original message even theyre bolded in your quote.

I think it would be fair not to change the message in any way if youre quoting it.


edit: I have never bolded anything in my messages because I don´t even know how to do it =)

It is a big deal when it interferes with other people enjoying the quest. Players who are only in it for the loot are, in my experience, little more than a distraction on quests. Its very annoying when a quest grinds to a halt because someone simply MUST know what that *a magic halberd* was that someone else just looted, or worse yet, interrupts a seer towards the end because they have to leave in 15 minutes so they want their cut of the loot NOW, screw what the quest was about.

Yes that kinda thing shouldn't happen at all. But some don't care about a story or anything. The monsters are just there to kill and get loot from. As long as they don't pull that crap you described above then I see nothing wrong with that thinking really.

It's kinda like "ah cool brit is invaded with tons of baddies, lets go kill'em" and they have fun with other players and get loot at the end. And hopefully the seers and gm's can catch a player going "man, that was awesome" and know they made a player happy, even if the player didn't "get" the storyline or whatever.

I humbly suggest that perhaps all of this could have been avoided by simple communication.If someone says something you take offensive....tell them....give them a chance to explain.If they meant it how you took it then you have the chance to ask them why they feel that way.Or,as in this case,you misunderstood what was meant then you have the chance to ask them to please clarify(by this I mean could they edit their post rewording what was said)It could have saved a 4 page long,for a lack of a better word,rant.As well,several peoples feelings were unnessarily hurt.I would hope that if someone took offense to something I said they would come to me about it.I assure you if the roles were reversed I would come to you.