theworldofdreams.com

Marius,

I see lots of things that WoD could do better, but I have the utmost respect for the folks who run WoD. As Ciara points out, it's amazing what "free" buys nowadays.

I would not put me in your "Conservative" group because I am not happy with the way things are. I have been playing on a RunUO shard lately and it has given me so many ideas! Anyway, I see lots of things that could be and should be changed. (I guess you missed my "Radical Changes" thread in the Tech Forum.) As for the others in your groups, I will let them respond as they see fit.

Realistically, you should move me into the other group, Marius. Changes need to be made so WoD can grow and evolve, in my opinion. How I address those subjects is different from the others.

My apologies, Atei. It was in fact an off-hand list, not a well thought-out one. As I said, I didn't mean to be insultive to anyone, in any way, and you're certainly well within your rights to correct me.

I've edited the post, and I'm actually fiddling with my own RunUO shard myself. I've some great ideas, too. If you're interested, maybe we could get together and share them? You've always tried to put your best foot forward for WoD, despite the hurdles, and I know that you've definately got some fantastic ideas up your sleeve, no doubt!

(so I really want to steal them! )

-M

I'm not a conservative, I'm more of a idontreallyplayenoughforittoaffectmetive.

Ok, this is in reply to Eldric's suggestion that buying skills should cost 500k per skill. If this happens after a shard wipe, then I WILL quit. Because of my schedule, I don't have that kind of time to hunt...I've been here two years, and I have 2 characters because it is just too darn hard for me to save the money as it is...over 300k to build one character is, in my opinion, just too much money. Over a million for one character is just outrageous.
Especially with a newbie character who is stuck hunting graveyards and lizards and rats, and has to pay 10k each time they die.

Now, before everyone tells me how easy it is to make money here, I know it isn't that hard to make money. I simply prefer to spend my money on regs, scrolls, houses, furnishings...etc. As a result, I've never had a surfeit of cash to spend on skills.

Lately, for a change of pace, I have been playing on a player run shard where you could buy skills up to about 30, but then you had to work them up thru usage. I really like that system. The gain wasn't SUPER fast...but it was nothing like the painfully slow gains on sphere shards. I would never advocate that kind of torture...but I did like the system this other shard had, where with a few days of industrious behavior on your part, you could gm a skill without running 10 million vendor quests or killing every rat near Britain.

Marius please go to the nice folks on strategypage.com and tell them i am a conservative cause they seem to feel i am some kind of flaming radical hehe.

Marius the Black wrote:I think the biggest problem is that strong, opinionated people get totally put-down if they *dare* suggest anything that might be a bit touchy and especially if it dare intrudes upon the Most Sacred Duties of the Admin.

I consider myself a strong, opinionated person but I choose my "touchy" issues very carefully. Moreover, an issue that's important to me, could be of zero relevance to some other opinionated people on the forums and viceversa. For instance, I don't have a strong opinion about evil RPing. I'm not particularly for or against it. I could not say the same about some of my friends, including you, Marius. If a thread on evil RPing comes around I can tell which people will be the most likely to voice their opinions the loudest.

When it comes to the "sacred duties" of our Admins, I've been known to support the current status quo mostly because I know the system works. However, a "conservative" player by your definition would not so easily critize certain aspects of our Seer program as I have been known to do in the past.

You could probably categorise WoD into "Conservatives" (being those who like WoD, the admin and everything else how it is) and "Radicals" (those who might have issues - or not - with the admin, but definately desire change).

Here is the fundamental problem I have with people who are so ready to make careless generalizations of this sort. It never covers everyone. In this case, it covers no one. The "conservatives" that you speak of simply do not exist. I don't know a single player who does not desire some form of change or thinks WoD could be better by changing this or that. In fact, by your definition everyone I know is a radical, granted some more than others, but they all desire some changes (improvements would be a better word).

I find misrepresenting other people's views and making broad generalizations about them to be unfair and insulting. I know that was not your intent here, Marius, but if you had just thought this through a bit more you would have realized that certain people's perceptions are severely skewed by their own biases and their oversized egos (hint: not talking about you here). Just because "Bob" the forum poster thinks he knows what's best for WoD it doesn't mean he has sole patent on ideas for improvement of the shard. Just because Bob suggest some changes, it doesn't mean George is against change just because he didn't like Bob's suggestion. Bob would be an egocentric moron to believe he and only he likes change and everyone else who does not like him does not want any change.

Please note there is a distinct difference between 'change' and 'new ideas' being added - and that is important to keep in mind.

Change is anything that is new or different. 'New ideas' are--by definition--change. If I think fishing MIBs should require a cartography check as well as fishing, then I'm for a change in the skill system. If I think we should have 3 seer-run quests per week, then I support change as well. If I think Benson should change the way he does business then that too is change. No distinct difference to speak of.

Everyone wants change in the form of new christmas presents, ,

That wouldn't be change since Christmas presents are a tradition here. In this case, change would be NOT having any Christmas gifts for Christmas.

Also, there's no need to get uppity about the labels "Conservative" and "Radical"; it could have just as easily been "Pink" and "Purple" or "Apples" and "Oranges" or any other two different (but similarly grouped) things. It's not meant to be derogatory.

But it is derogatory because it is neither accurate nor representative of people's viewpoints. This is a completely made up category with not true basis in reality (just like the concept of race). You may want to use these terms in the future if you'd like, but keep in mind 99% of the people you are so easily comparmentalizing do not fit neatly into those compartments. The best thing you can hope for is to study each person's case individually and assume their opinions are not exactly the same as the other guy's in every issue (in other words, think realistically). Treating people as individuals is always good. Grouping them in made up categories is not.

I've always considered myself leaning towards the Radicals because I try not to get involved too deeply into the politics of everything, even though I have .. when it comes to personal projects.

You mean you speak out when something concerns you or is of interest to you? What a novel idea! Call me crazy but isn't that they way things usually go?

I do not have an opinion form on every single issue, ut I do know where I stand on a number of issues that are of importance to me (like RPing, crafting, player economy, macroing, etc, etc). I'll be willing to bet that both the 'radicals' and 'conservatives' you speak of are nothing more than this--people who have formed opinions on certain issues but hardly all. I may be for change on the subject of crafting while hunting may be ok for me (which btw is not). Many forum regular don't really care for RPing. I think it is crucial for any healthy shard.

So you see the problem in trying to make generalizations about people? And that includes yourself. If Marius the Black told me his opinion about evil RPing is worth more than mine just because he's been more loud about the subject than anyone else, I'd say bull$#!%. You do not represent the pro-evil RPing side anymore than I represent the opinion of all Virtue Guards just because I'm the oldest one here. If someone disagrees with me, they do not reject the VGs, they are rejecting me and my ideas. I would think everybody in these forums would have enough brains to realize that (here is an almost fair generalization )

some how i got left off that list?

simon wrote:some how i got left off that list?

LOL simon, be happy that you were left off
So was I and I'm not complaining.

Herakles

I know I haven't been here enough lately,(Work and classes keeping me super busy and tired..) but I can't help but stop for a moment and make an observation..

Celeste Kendreyl.. You've got way too much free time on your hands. I remember when you first started and snapped my head off just for trying to help you, and in all honesty, I haven't liked you at all since. Granted, I'd be more then happy to help you in any way I could in the game, outside that, I wouldn't touch you with a 50 foot pole to save your life.

All that being said and made clear, on to my point. You really need to drop the whole revolution thing and go find yourself another shard that is either to your liking, or welling to bend to your very obnoxious and oppressive, behavior and attitude. I can personally say that I voted that WoD needed change, but it surely wasn't in any direction you're trying to pull it. I voted for change, because I want to see more people working together, getting alone, and ALOT less of this martyr and revolution crap.

Yes, I realize this is just some worthless opinion from someone who doesn't have enough time to nit pick every single detail, but I really feel it just needs to be said.

As Azzo put it, if you don't like it, get the hell out.

Why dredge this up again? We've gone a week without having to think about it and the boards have been a much nicer place without all the bickering.

Let's all move on.

Orion Michaels wrote:Why dredge this up again? We've gone a week without having to think about it and the boards have been a much nicer place without all the bickering.

Let's all move on.

Amileth Wrote:

I know I haven't been here enough lately,(Work and classes keeping me super busy and tired..) but I can't help but stop for a moment and make an observation..

She already stated why she is "dredging" this up again. She is just excercising her right to express her view on the subject. We're now telling people when they can, or can't express their opinion?

It was an honest question and I wasn't 'telling' her when she can or can't post her opinion so just cool off.

Again, I suggest we all move on.

Cool off from what? I'm not angry in the least. But when you "suggest" that we all move on, you are telling someone that their opinion means nothing to you, and it should not be given. My post was not written in an "angry" manner at all. I was just "asking an honest question".

Tristan Gryphon wrote:Cool off from what? I'm not angry in the least. My post was not written in an "angry" manner at all. I was just "asking an honest question".

Then I apologize for going on the defensive. But please look at it from my perspective. To my eyes the last comment of your reply to my first post was very snide and unconstructive. We come back to the written word, (in this case typed,) not being a very effective form of communication.

Tristan Gryphon wrote:But when you "suggest" that we all move on, you are telling someone that their opinion means nothing to you, and it should not be given.

More correctly, in your opinion "when you "suggest" that we all move on, you are telling someone that their opinion means nothing to you, and it should not be given."

What I AM telling someone, or trying to say, is this, plain english:

It has been nice reading the boards for the past week and not seeing the bickering, name-calling and people telling others to "get the hell out." If nothing has been posted about it for this long, please let's leave it dead and continue the serenity.

Is there anything wrong with that?

Tristan Gryphon wrote: We're now telling people when they can, or can't express their opinion?

Maybe I'm missing it, but what was "snide and unconstructive" about that statement?

From all appearances you were telling someone that they shouldn't give their opinion. It was an honest question.