theworldofdreams.com

::thinks about it::
hmmm ya know me and the liches do have our own clique...

Azzo the cliqued pirahna!

What's with all this "clique" stuff.

I thought WoD was a clique!

Edgewood had some things to say before he left and managed to do it without resorting to profanity etc as the odd soul has done in the past. I don't agree with some of what he said and some of what he said i think of as advantages to WoD rather than problems.
We are awfully quick to denounce "flames" in the last few months when an actual flame would probably cause collective apoplexy. we don't even have ad hominem attacks here often enough to worry about. WoD boards are really quite civil at their worst which says something about us collectively i think.
As for WoD refusing to change if you talk to the elderly and somewhat crotchety oldbies about the good ol days and Dundee you will soon come to appreciate the calmer and more deliberate approach Drocket has to fiddling with things. Socially WoD has a definite culture and we remain true to the vision of the founders. WoD is where you come to escape from the petty rudeness and PK'ing Doodz that infest so many other shards.
The small size of our player base limits the RP options open to us. Most of the limitations come from within us however and we have had some great RP types in the past. I mean for god's sake who can forget Da Bogmu the stench that walked like an Ork and his undending quest to seize the Kingship of the Orks. Or his less popular quest to rid the world of the gentle and noble Llama.
Please take a couple minutes at the end of a quest and write down something of what happened in the Quest Forum. It really only takes a couple minutes and believe it or not the process grows on you.

It always surprises me the attention given to "flamed" threads. I read these forums at least once a day and i never respond to these types of threads, mostly because both sides are always well covered, and there are always rights and wrongs on both sides.
So what makes me take keyboard in hand now?
90 people are always ready to express their opinions in a flamed thread. Seldom do these same people respond to a quest write up, a RP write up or someone just trying to actively improve on a good thing. These people only post to critize, critique or nitpick words. Sometimes it doesnt even start out as a "flameable" tread but these same people will put a spin on it. These people are always worried about the well being of WOD.
NOW! having broken my own rule and critiqued and critized ....i want to do something supportive.
Tonight at 9pm (central) there is a party at my house and group hunt to Buc's den. This is to promote voting for the shard and to make the newer players aware/informed of the voting process. I expect to see all these 90 people who love their shard so much they are willing to come to its defense at any cost.

Oh and grab a newbie on your way over.

~ Aislin~

Aislin wrote:Oh and grab a newbie on your way over.

Hehe good we need Food for the party

For the record, I don't have a problem with someone telling me there's something wrong with WoD. Heck, I'll be the first one to say that WoD is far from perfect. There is always room for improvement, and so long as there are players who care (and not just bitch about it), WoD will continue to be a great UO shard.

That being said, I also believe everyone--and I mean every single player--can make a difference. WoD hasn't been around for five years thanks to all the players who left in anger because the world wouldn't change to what they wanted it to. WoD is still around because of all those players who saw something needed to be done, and did it. All the Homers, Ciaras, Ateis (the list goes on and on) who cared enough about WoD to spend the time and effort to do something for their shard (and that's not counting selfless work of dozens Admins and GMs).

The problem I have with Edgewood Dirk's "goodbye" post is that it suffers from the same, indiscriminate and misleading tone of Celeste's posts. Example:

Edgewood Dirk wrote:No one here really bothers to roleplay, or really takes the people who want to roleplay seriously.

I'm not sure how many people Edgewood interviewed or how many surveys he prepared before he ventured to make such an authoritative statement but I can tell you with certainty, there ARE people here who enjoy to roleplay. Are there enough? Possibly not, but like I always say, you shouldn't knock it till you try it. I don't know about you but I can't remember when was the last time Edgewood tried to organized a RPing event of any sort.

In fact, almost anyone who does roleplay, and does not roleplay a completely altruistic, generous, caring, lawful person, is almost always bashed for being un-WoD-like.

I would think EVERYONE would want to be generous, caring, lawful, and altruistic under all circumstances (if that were possible). I can only imagine how much better the world would be if all people were this way all the time. The part that really bothers me, though, is that Edgewood would blame WoD in general for the opinions of a few people he disagrees with. If Bob feels that RPing an evil character is just plain stupid, I defend his right to believe so. I may not agree with Bob's opinion but that does not give me any right to say something is wrong with WoD because I cannot get Bob to think the same way I do.

Seeing as this is an rp-optional shard, that seems a bit unfair

What is? That Drocket hasn't told them to shut up and forced them think the same way you do? Ultimately, Bob's opinion has very little to do with WoD not being able to accomodate evil RPers. As Drocket mentioned before, allowing "evil" players to take the place of "evil" monsters would inevitable cause conflict among players, a type of conflict that--intentionally or not--would change the spirit of WoD into something completely different (from PvE to PvP-oriented shard).

If there's anything you should be upset about is that WoD is not a PvP shard. If that bothers you, the by all means, go elsewhere because that aspect of WoD is not going to change. But by God man, do not blame the entire shard because you've had a few disagreements with some people.

It's the Message Board Piranhas that gnash their teeth, tear, spit and chew that frustrate me.

If disagreeing with you on this one post makes me a piranha, if thinking differently from the way you do makes me a piranha, then I guess I am one.

I don't recall ever giving my personal opinion on Dirk's original post. I didn't give my personal opinion because I feel neither one way nor the other regarding it. I just feel people have a right to express themselves and if they shout insults as they walk out the door, be the better *coughs* woman and let the words pass right over your head.

Chelsea The Match (Heh)

I'm a lil teapot short and stout...:OP

Can I roleplay a pirahna next? heh

I also tend to just read these types of forum posts with a jaundiced eye from my years of adminning shards, even the one Edgewood referred to (First Sundering). When we switched to the WoD style scripts, it was with the sole reason to promote more role-playing, as we were a RP shard. I and the other admins felt that the idea of the jobbing and buying skills was a lot better than macroing or gaining skills through months of repetitive actions. We felt that there would be more of a RP reason for the players to interact with each other. Once we did so, then the complaints came in that the scripts were not RP friendly. My answer then is the same one I make now. RP is never determined by scripts, items, or anything else other than the players. A shard is what we as players’ make of it, good or bad, indifferent, or otherwise.

I challenge each one of us here, that if we feel there is something wrong with the shard, let us address it in a reasonable manner, with specific cases cited, as well as specific solutions. Without those solutions, we are just engaging in a gripe session, which does us no good. What specifically needs to be changed to make the overwhelming difference you feel is needed? Without those ideas, we stagnate.

But also, not every idea is going to be implemented. As long as we are aware of that, and can understand it, then we can be effective.

One other thing before I get of my soapbox here is that a lot of the culture change has to come from within, i.e., the players. As Drocket stated, I know how frustrating it can be as a seer to do a quest and never see any information posted about it, or vote of thanks, or anything, so I don't blame them for being upset that happened, especially if it was a key part of the quest that wasn't shared. From my experience, that is endemic to all players, and it has to be change from the grass root level, i.e., the players themselves have to make it a point to post about all quest related things or the momentum is often lost.

OK, I am off to post my thoughts on the quest forum, as I am also guilty of not posting all the information I should

Chelsea Duklain wrote:I don't recall ever giving my personal opinion on Dirk's original post.

And I wasn't responding to your non-existant opinion about Edgewood Dirk. My post was in regard to your asumption that cliques and piranhas dominate the msg boards. I would be very interested to hear which players--in your opinion--are part of these cliques, and what exactly makes them so. I would like to hear from your own mouth who the "piranhas" of the msg boards are, and why they should be considered thus.
No, I'm not asking for a flame-war. I merely realize that if you have a problem with someone the only way to solve those problems is to deal with them in clear terms. Making vague accusations and pointing fingers in the air won't help.

I just feel people have a right to express themselves and if they shout insults as they walk out the door, be the better *coughs* woman and let the words pass right over your head.

I agree, there is no need to rely on insults. If the other person does not want to accept your point of view, just let it go. It's pointless to argue over something you cannot change.

Caramon wrote:I challenge each one of us here, that if we feel there is something wrong with the shard, let us address it in a reasonable manner, with specific cases cited, as well as specific solutions. Without those solutions, we are just engaging in a gripe session, which does us no good. What specifically needs to be changed to make the overwhelming difference you feel is needed? Without those ideas, we stagnate.

Well said.

Joram Lionheart wrote:

Caramon wrote:I challenge each one of us here, that if we feel there is something wrong with the shard, let us address it in a reasonable manner, with specific cases cited, as well as specific solutions. Without those solutions, we are just engaging in a gripe session, which does us no good. What specifically needs to be changed to make the overwhelming difference you feel is needed? Without those ideas, we stagnate.

Well said.

Quite a compliment from someone that I admire for your adroit turn of phrase and well worded and thought out posts.

Thank you

OK, enough of the mutual admiration society here As a programmer with a decided personality bent towards technical things, it was always frustrating to hear complaints without one specific solution being proposed. It is always easier to make broad, sweeping generalizations, (see, I just made one ) than to propose realistic steps to address the underlying issues. I am sure if Drocket or the other admins see those types of posts, they would be more likely to implement specific changes that made sense. I know I always was willing to at least look at ideas, even though some of them were never implemented, they were at least considered.

And thanks to the Admins/GM's/Seers for doing such a wonderful job here. I have always enjoyed it when I played here, and as others have stated, have always come back.

Tamla Tamara wrote:I'm a lil teapot short and stout...:OP

Can I roleplay a pirahna next? heh

Gramps still wants to know when he can ride the fire engine.

Azzo Ranar wrote:Gramps still wants to know when he can ride the fire engine.

Ride it? I thought he wanted to BE the fire engine


*is a flipping mammal and does not care what anyone else thinks about the subject*

First of all I take offense to his "no-one role plays on here." If that is the case I need some SERIOUS mental help because I talk to my dragon, henchies, shopkeepers, guards, etc .. all in response to things they say to me as a norm. No I don't always but as he himself said .. WOD has never clamied to be a purly rp shard if it was I wouldn't be here. In order to make friendships you can't stay "in character" all the time and if I had to say "ooc" before every other thing I said I would go crazy and quit. As for the Quests.... (having staffed on another shard run by a good friend that I miss) if you haven't ... you have NO idea how frustrating it is to spend a week planning a quest only to have people complain, bit**, whine and moan about it and t hen turn around and say we need more quests. Or if it is one that they have to search for things, as soon as thier friends get on they all walk them through it so they don't actually have to do it. I too have searched around to other shards and WOD is the place for me I truely love it here. However I didn't come here thinking that eventually it would change to the way I want it to be in my perfect UO world. Reading that post it just seemed to me that he had it in his head that eventually it would change to everything he wanted. In parting words, if you want your own perfect shard the EXACT way you want it make your own. Just try to run it and see the exact amount of time you would take away from the real world, your family, your own time playing games, etc. only to have people complain that it isn't the way they want it without making a single suggestion ..... just complaining.
*****steps off soapbox*****

**goes back into hiding in the NON posting world**