theworldofdreams.com

Just my 2 cents here...
In America there is a seperation of church and state. Therefore, no matter what your God said, it neither should nor can be interpreted as word of law.

simon wrote:Hey Bayn, how does it feel to stand your own and not go with the crowd?

I always do, dumbass.

hehe

sorry. it is my favorite word for the day.

This should be a mute issue, check out this

MOOT MOOT! If it was a mute issue, no one could hear you.

hmmm, moot moot, I kinda sounded like a cow with straw caught between the teeth.

Wolfie wrote:

Bayn wrote:Dang, somebody spank me!

Sure

No offense, darlin', but I prefer being spanked (only whenever absolutely necessary cause I usually prefer to do the spanking myself...umm, enough of that!) by ladies 25 and up.

AND THIS TIME, I PROMISE, no more posts in this thread. If I do, then I'd be a dumbass and I don't want that!

Chastain wrote:Just my 2 cents here...
In America there is a seperation of church and state. Therefore, no matter what your God said, it neither should nor can be interpreted as word of law.

I concur, but aparently Bush doesn't see it that way.

It can't be a left and right thing. The left had a ton people run right on this one, but way more on the right came to the left on this issue. As Bayn said it should be a moot(sorry) issue.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Two guys next door getting married would make you unhappy how?

simon wrote:Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Ahh the ever so vague first amendment. If only it could have helped the poor slaves from having their freedom deprived and being racially discriminated.

Well let me share a little common knowledge with you, Simon. The Constitution of the United States doesn't say what it says, the Constitution says what the Supreme Court says it says.
Our constitution has nothing written in it that gurantees anyone, anything. Only the people that interpret (and subsequently enforce) the consitution can do that. It is with good reason the constitution is as vague as it is.

What's more, the constitution originally was not intended to provide anyone with any rights. Rather it was meant to ensure the government would not try to deprive anyone of their rights (supposedly expounded on the "Bill of rights" but as you can see the Bill of rights doesn't have a whole lot of concrete statements).

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Now which part of that sentence gurantees that homosexuals should have the right to marry? The constitution doesn't say what are homosexual's privileges or immunities. The constitution doesn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality any more than it does about abortion. That is left to the courts to decide. So you see, in reality, it is people like you and me (with their personal ideologies, biases, religious views guiding them) who decide who shall have what rights, why, or why not. Our fabulous Constitution is utterly unable to help us. History has proven to be true over and over and over again.

Also it is a sin to keep others from being happy yes?

I'd like to get a look at your translation

Shall we look at The Koran too, I'm sure we can get some really good lines in there.

Why? I don't recall arguing that we should or shouldn't allow homosexuals to marry because anyone's religious book says so. And yes, the Koran doesn't like homosexuals either but that has no bearing on what laws we can make or not make (well at least it shouldn't)

simon wrote:We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creatorwith certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

WHOA, he said creator! he said creator! Don't you come pushing YOUR religion down my throat, now. These people are unbelievable. Who was the major moron that said that?!

Thats the 14th you quoted, the 1st is

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Now which part of that sentence guarantees that homosexuals should have the right to marry?

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

The words "abridge the privileges" in todays world getting married brings any number of privileges which should and shall at all costs be given to ALL couples who wish to so pursue those rights and privileges. Rights that come not from the gods, but from man him self. It is our laws and customs which led to tax breaks and many other things that should be given to ANYONE who wishes to be "life partners" not just a man and woman who wish to marry.

Which is why the far right broke out civil unions, so that we on the left don't crap all over the traditional marriage. But what is the difference? Once you break it all down its just a word.

simon wrote:The words "abridge the privileges" in todays world getting married brings any number of privileges which should and shall at all costs be given to ALL couples who wish to so pursue those rights and privileges.

Ahh, but who is saying that? The constitution? Certainly not, those are your words, Simon. That is your opinion.
You see what I'm getting at? You can quote the constitution all you want but ultimately it's people's opinions that matter. Like I said, the constitution doesn't gurantee anyone, anything. People do.

I have a book sitting in front of me that contains a large numbers of civil rights (Supreme Court) cases from the late 19th century to later 20th century. In it, you can find dozens of times when the constitution *seemingly* has been used to send people to jail for holding unpopular views, enforce racial segregation, and even endorse the persecution of religious and political minorities. The number of atrocities supposedly allowed by the constitution is baffling.

Of course, it isn't the constitution that's to blame. It is those who interpret it.

Rights that come not from the gods, but from man him self.

If that's your view, then you shouldn't be quoting Thomas Jefferson, dummy.

As I had stated prior, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

The rights listed there clearly come from a supreme being(s).

The rights which marriage bring, clearly come from mankind.

Any good number of men have given their lives for that meaningless thing you speak of, when they took office they swore an oath to up hold THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, you tread on VERY thin ice by making such statements.

Ok, read the politically correct stuff. Even the detailed history of relgion complete with excerpts from the Bible. Impressive.

Unfortunately, I'm not that intelligent. I haven't researched tons of information before I wrote this but I do have feelings and beliefs. In my humble opinion, this is how "I" see things. See where I said "I"? Take note of the fact that "I" believe this and am NOT trying to convince anyone else to see things my way. I'm a Christian and incredibly proud of it. I'm simply stating my own beliefs because, after all, we are in America and there's that freedom of speech thing that allows me to express my opinions.

I love God.
God loves me.
I believe in him therefore believe in his word, the Bible.
Bible says homosexuality is wrong.
I agree.
God says judge not lest ye be judged.
I don't.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were froth with homosexuals. Hence the term sodomy.
When God made someone for Adam he made Eve, not Steve.
That's all I need to know.

Chelsea
If Ya Flame Me You'll Be Persecuting Christians Ya Heathen!

If Ya Flame Me You'll Be Persecuting Christians Ya Heathen!

When has that stopped us?

That explains your views on homosexuals. So are you saying you would deny them rights which are granted by their fellow man not god, rights they are justly entitled to?

Chelsea Duklain wrote:I love God.
God loves me.
I believe in him therefore believe in his word, the Bible.
Bible says homosexuality is wrong.
I agree.
God says judge not lest ye be judged.
I don't.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were froth with homosexuals. Hence the term sodomy.
When God made someone for Adam he made Eve, not Steve.
That's all I need to know.

The Bible is a Christian book who regard it as His Word. Unfortunately, it has been translated, mistranslated, and so on and so on throughout the ages. Thus, modern day Christians are regarding a horribly inaccurate text as the "Word of God". No wonder Christian societies throughout the world are in such dreadful shape!

A lot of Christians realize this and thus strive to study languages and semantics in order to provide a more accurate translation. That is why there are so many translations of the Bible out there!

If Ya Flame Me You'll Be Persecuting Christians Ya Heathen!

hehe, that was my favorite line in this post!

Following is a LOT of interesting information y'all can read if anyone cares to begin to understand why the Bible does not truly have much to say at all about homosexuality.

For years the Church has condemned homosexuality as one of the worst sins. In some cases, cold-blooded killing isn’t considered as evil as making love to a person of the same sex.

For many Christians, this causes a major problem. How can one love the Lord and be homosexual at the same time? Most heterosexual Christians will tell you that this is not possible. In order to follow the “straight and narrow path,â€

simon wrote:

If Ya Flame Me You'll Be Persecuting Christians Ya Heathen!

When has that stopped us?

If you flame Chelsea, I'll have to call you a dumbass, you don't want that, simon.

lol

NOTE: Ciara told me I have limited usage of the word "dumbass" since she copyrighted it for usage within and about WoD environs. I am not sure how much longer I can use it publicly. It is such a great word too, don't you think?

Bayn wrote:Ok, I will state the irrefutable truth. You asked for it, you got it.

This all is so silly, someone has to take a stand, so I WILL!

Y'all are dumbasses.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

And I never said anything about gophers. Are you not telling us something, Bayn?