theworldofdreams.com

While the original post may have been somewhat strongly worded, and I've never been one to make a "Goodbye" type post, I can see as how it could be useful to shard admins.

If it turns out that a good number of people leave for reason X*, it may be that looking into changing X is worth looking at. Not necessarily that it should be changed, just that it may be worth looking at. If most departing people just sort of fade away (as I tend to do) all anyone knows is that someone left, and not why, which would seem to be a useful piece of information.

I dislike the assumption that I'm being 'bitter', no matter how true it is. Thankyou for the kind words, but if I appear to be (or actually am) negative towards WoD, I fear I cannot help it. Truly, WoD is a lovely place, with lovely people: this I do not deny. What I say, I say out of concern for a shard that I feel is suffering for reasons too politic and too personal too discuss here, at this point in time. Rest assured, however, that they will be brought to light soon.

If you want specifics, take a look at the shard. Yes, more people are playing, that comes with time. Yes, there are more people here. But quantity does not neccessitate quality and I would rather a shard that was proud because of what it was, rather than it's large player base.

"But Marius, we *are* proud of WoD. We love it and think it's great! I think you should eat worms and die."

Well, as I said before: I love WoD and the people here. I'm proud to be a WoDian, and I always will be. But that does not, for a second, make me content with the situation at hand. If people here are blind to see that WoD could be so much more than it already is, then it is indeed a lost cause.

As for "trying to change it" - what can I do? Seriously, I ask you, player-to-player, what is there that I can do? Please don't take that question in an aggressive light, for it was not my intention. Just as you ask a question (and I reply), I pose one to you now.

-M

Tristan Gryphon wrote:I wonder why it is that everyone who decides to leave WoD, feel it necessary to make an empassioned speech about how bad WoD is and how unhappy they are here. Actually that is not a fair statement. There have been some who have had to leave due to RL issues. But that is not my point. If you don't want to play here anymore. And you just don't like it here. Just move on.

Call me small minded, but I really like it here.

Bye

~Tristan Gryphon~

I don't believe that I ever said anything about being afraid of, or not wanting changes. If you click on the "Changes" link above, you will find a huge number of changes that have taken place over the years. Yes, some of them are subtle, or superficial as some have called them. Others are more substantial. But, there have been changes.

The problem that I have with Edgewood Dirk's post, and others like it. Is that it is not a pedestal for change, it is simply a child throwing a tantrum over the fact that, "They won' play the way I want to play, so I'm just gonna quit". "And while I'm at it, I'm gonnna tell anyone who reads the forums why this is such a bad place".

It is this kind of post against the shard and the People responsible for running the shard, that absolutely irks the crap out of me. It is not that I am "Holier-than-thou", because I am not. I just can't stand to hear people trash our shard without responding in defense of the shard.

That is where I get the attitude of, "If you don't like it, get out".

~Tristan Gryphon~

To the original poster: Good luck, and I hope you find happiness where ever you land. Bear in mind that changes come more from the inside then any outside force. WoD like any other thing is what you put into. I am completely bored sitting at any bank (let alone Britan), so you most likely won't find me there.

There is always room for growth and change, but one must remain true to one's principle, also. WoD was founded with a guiding philisophy of PvE and friendly toward other players. There seems to be a lot of room in that philisophy. Granted I can see the need for more tools for players to do big things. And now I'm starting to drift.

Anyways once again: Good luck and I hope you find happiness where ever you end up.

I have gone elsewhere, and let me tell you all, the grass is not greener on the other side. It's all in how you tend it.

I will admit that the WoD does need a little shakeup, but changes should never come quickly or without significant thought.

If you feel that there is no change here or the shard is at an empass, then it is time to move on. Sorry to see you go. Heck, I'm sorry to see anyone go, but sometimes it's best to leave gracefully than to let your bitterness or disillusionment well up inside you.

Best of luck on your future endevors.

Malachai Wolfsbane

Knowing Brother Dirk as I do, this thread comes a complete shock. I can only chalk it up to the fact that you folks probably never met the man and are reacting simply to his criticism of the shard rather than to Dirk himself.

All the same, I cannot believe anyone would read bitterness into his parting comments. Setting aside our long acquaintanceship and reading his parting comments with a purely objective eye (try it some time, it's fun), I can see nothing in his remarks that indicate.

What I can see is a group of players with no clue what WOD is really about ranting at another player because he signed off one last time with an honest and heartfelt good-bye.

Maybe the grass isn't always greener, and maybe he will come back some day, but rubbing his nose in it and ganging up on him the way you folks did was just plain shameful.

WOD is not about pay-back and in-fighting and all that BS. WOD is supposed to be about making real friends with people and enjoying some time together ridding our shared world of all the virtual evils we can. One of these days I hope we'll figure out how to rid ourselves of the real evils we bring along with is into that virtual world--evils like jealousy, pettiness, foolish pride, and the fear that creates them all.

Marius the Black wrote:Like it or not, it's true. Accept it as observation based on experience; WoD refuses to change. Once you come to understand that, you realise just how limiting WoD really is, and how small it will always be.

Something I've learned from my time spent working on WoD (sometimes a far too long of time, I sometimes think...) is that you can't please everyone. Probably for every person who's left because things don't change, there's 2 (or more) people who have left because of things that HAVE changed.

So the question is, what exactly do you think should be changed? Be specific, and carefully think through what you're asking for.

Don't expect that to change any time soon. Quests have been like that more or less since I've come here, and there's nothing to indicate they'll be anything else.

You're quite right that most quests are, shall we say, shallow. Ultimately, we can only work with what the players give us, and as long as the players continue to ignore roleplaying quests, they're going to continue to be in the minority.

In fact, regarding that pirate quest, a Seer withdrew the entire thing because (s)he felt it was not getting enough attention that it deserved. The role-playing aspect of the quest actually had people out and about 'searching' for pirates, but because no one posted in the Forum, (Quests must follow a certain pattern you see, changing that is sacrilege) the quest was turfed.

Its a tad disheartening to spend hours building and running a quest, then find that the players don't consider it worth the 5 minutes it takes to post about it.

The seer in question was particularly annoyed because this quest occured a few days after a large discussion on these boards about the importance of post about quests, especially the more detail-oriented quests that need to be recorded so that other player's know what's going on. The fact is that we're not your servants. We're not running quests because we have to: we're running them because we want to have fun with them to. If you (the players) can't meet us halfway... Well, lets just say that it doesn't help anyone.

Edgewood Dirk wrote:I'm posting to let everyone know (if anyone knew me well enough to care) that I'm leaving WoD, I believe for good. I'm sorry, but my experiences here have shown that WoD refuses to grow in any meaningful way, refuses to take advantage of the roleplaying tools available to it, refuses to enhance the playing experience of the people here by altering the item system in anything other than superficial ways, and generally refuses to do anything to set it apart from being just a chat room with customizable avatars.

Dell,
This is his opening paragraph. What rose-colored glasses are you looking through to call this a "heart-felt" goodbye? It is dripping with criticism not only of the players, but of the administration staff. You say we are "ganging up" on Edgewood Dirk. I say we are staunchly defending the world in which we like to play. You say you are looking at his post with an objective eye. Show me where in his post he has shown any kind of "heart-felt" goodbye. Other than his last word of "Goodbye" Honestly, where? You say you can't believe anyone would read any bitterness in his parting comments. Have you read them? Here, let me put some of them in front of you again:

I'm sorry, but my experiences here have shown that WoD refuses to grow in any meaningful way, refuses to take advantage of the roleplaying tools available to it, refuses to enhance the playing experience of the people here by altering the item system in anything other than superficial ways, and generally refuses to do anything to set it apart from being just a chat room with customizable avatars.

That is a "heart-felt" goodbye? Give me a frickin' break.

P.S. Oh, and I'm not even gonna touch your comment about me not having any clue about what WoD is all about.

~Tristan Gryphon~

I'm sorry you, Brother Tristan, are taking these things so personally.

I think it's obvious that Brother Dirk wanted an RP shard, and WOD just isn't that. If it were, we would lose some players and gain others. Drocket said it too...you can't please everyone. If WOD ain't for you, you're free to leave (that's in the manual somewhere, I think).

There's something else in the manual too though. The players' oath. Did we all read it? Did we all sign it? Are we living up to it? And, most importantly, when we've gone, does any of it matter anyway?

And what's wrong with rose-colored glasses anyhow? Is it so terrible to try and find the good in people?

"If you look for the bad in people you will surely find it."

--Abraham Lincoln

Message boards are for posting information, questions and one's personal opinions on a particular topic. Freedom of speech is an inalienable right.

Piranhas tend to school together to tear creatures apart.

Every social gathering of people has a few cliques whether it's realized by those individuals or not.

As you can see, I have said nothing negative about WOD. I love this shard. I love the way the game is. I love spending time here. I love the people in game.
It's the Message Board Piranhas that gnash their teeth, tear, spit and chew that frustrate me.

Simple rules to remember:

Do unto others as you'd have done unto you.

Turn the other cheek.

Let bygones be bygones.

*End cliche's*

Chelsea the Philosophical Plagurist

Drocket wrote:You're quite right that most quests are, shall we say, shallow. Ultimately, we can only work with what the players give us, and as long as the players continue to ignore roleplaying quests, they're going to continue to be in the minority.

...

Its a tad disheartening to spend hours building and running a quest, then find that the players don't consider it worth the 5 minutes it takes to post about it.

The seer in question was particularly annoyed because this quest occured a few days after a large discussion on these boards about the importance of post about quests, especially the more detail-oriented quests that need to be recorded so that other player's know what's going on. The fact is that we're not your servants. We're not running quests because we have to: we're running them because we want to have fun with them to. If you (the players) can't meet us halfway... Well, lets just say that it doesn't help anyone.

I'm going to reiterate this point because this is a very big deal to me. Seers bust their asses to try to give players a good time, and when quest after quest gets ignored on the boards, their motivation withers. If 15 mins of sharing your experience with the rest of the shard is too much to ask, how in the world can anyone expect seers to spend the time trying to think of creative quests?

Chelsea Duklain wrote:Piranhas tend to school together to tear creatures apart.
Every social gathering of people has a few cliques whether it's realized by those individuals or not.

Groups of friends band together too. Would you call you and your friends a clique as well? If being friends with certain people here and occassionally agreeing with their points of view makes a piranha then I'm proud to be one.

One dictionary definition says that a clique is "a narrow circle of persons associated by common interests or for the accomplishment of a common purpose" (Webster's). I don't know how narrow my clique is, after all, for all I'm concerned, you are my friend until you prove yourself to be otherwise. But it is true that we are associated by common interests and have a common purpose. That's why whenever a whiner comes around and starts bitching about the shard for the sake of whinning, I fail to see how this helps our purpose. Of course, this is a free country and everyone can spew any amount of garbage they wish to from their mounths, but like I've said before many times before, we don't have like it.

If you (using generic "you" here) have the freedom to come here trash the World of Dreams and its players, we possess the equal freedom to dislike it and post an appropiate response. We are entitled to demand proof and to make our case why we disagree.

Moreover, if someone else agrees with me on the boards, does that fact alone make him or her part of my "clique?" Of course not! You have the freedom to agree a disagree with anyone you choose without them having to be your friends or enemies (the enemy of your enemy is not your friend)

If merely agreeing with someone makes that someone part of the same clique, then it stands to reason that anyone who disagrees with the so-called clique's opinion would not be part of that clique right? Again, this is fallacious and unwarranted assumption. Heck, Marius and I have disagreed on more issues that I care to remember (on the boards and outside the boards), but he still part of my "clique" and so long as he continues to be my friend we'll be part of the same group of friends.

I believe the "clique" definition doesn't quite represent the kind of friendship associations we have here on WoD. Therefore, I think the definition for the word fellowship--"a close association of friends or equals sharing similar interests"--would better describe our frienship groups.

It's the Message Board Piranhas that gnash their teeth, tear, spit and chew that frustrate me.

If disagreeing with you on this one post makes me a piranha, if thinking differently from the way you do makes me a piranha, then I guess I am one. I'm sorry Chelsea but I'm not one to follow anyone else's thinking. I formulate my own opinions and choose the way I'm going to respond other people's posts. Like you said, piranhas are a collective who act and think as collective. I believe Tristan Gryphon would be greatly offended if you told him someone else was formulating his opinions for him.

That's why making generalizations about people you know nothing about is always offensive and disrespectful. I might as well be grouping you and Celeste into the "msg boards harpies" clique simply because you too happen to believe in cliques. I hope you would agree that's ridiculous. People are different and they may hold same or conflicting opinions for different reasons. There is a great danger when you stop dealing with people as individuals and start grouping them into madeup categories. Bigotry and intolerance are the inevitable results, and where there is bigotry and intolerance no friendships can survive.

Edgewood, on your way out please take Celeste with you, she seems to agree with you and would definately be something we would NEVER miss. As for the rest of you that have disention in your hearts, I have said it before, get the hell out. Don't let the door hitcha where the good lord splitcha. Our seers and GM's put up with all your bullshit and still remain, but hey they are mindless non-evolving worthless dirtbags right, what do they do anyway around here. I salute your post as to why you are leaving as it is your perogitive and in posting it may or may not give the admin a heads up on someting they may have overlooked.
As Voltaire said, I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.

Azzo the Pirahna

Azzo Ranar wrote:
Azzo the Pirahna

Pirahna???? I would rather be known as the "clique" hehe.

Herakles

Herakles wrote:

Azzo Ranar wrote:
Azzo the Pirahna

Pirahna???? I would rather be known as the "clique" hehe.

Herakles

The Illustrious Clique Lord Herakles....yeah I kinda like that!!!!!